lesz

In the last 25 years or so, I've owned about 15 or 16 Nissan/Infiniti or Toyota/Lexus vehicles. About half of them were built in the US and half were built in Japan.

With regard to mechanical reliability, I've seen no difference whatever. Both the US built and Japanese vehicles were excellent.

With regard to things like fits and finishes, both the US and Japanese built vehicles were also excellent, but, consistently, the Japanese built vehicles were a bit better with things like absence of orange peel in the finish, near perfect consistency in the size of gaps between panels, etc. Even if the vehicles built in Japan and those built in the US were built to the same tolerance specifications, the ones built in Japan consistently have been closer to perfect within those tolerances. The differences have admittedly been small, and I would have to look closely to see them, but they have been there.

I would not hesitate to buy a US built Lexus, but, if given the choice, I'd prefer one built in Japan, and that would be especially true if the US built vehicle came from the first year of production in a new factory.

jtrue28

I think you're underestimating the amount of influence that Japanese ownership has on the workers in KY. If the cars weren't living up to their high expectations, they would not be selling them.

Again, volume levels are low right now. That either means that a lot of the cars are being scrapped, or it is taking the American workers longer to adjust to the quality that Lexus expects.

kellens

I get it, and btw, go CATS! I love UK basketball. Their math/science scores comparatively to the rest of the world, well, not so much. Same for USA built cars historically. The fact you have to mention that the Japanese will be carrying a stick over USA workers to build them 'right' further illuminates how far we have to go in the USA, and raises a some doubt for the factory once it gets to full speed and someone isn't being 'watched'. Japanese and some other countries more have a culture of hard work and shunning handouts. Not trying to make light of MANY extremely hard working folks in the states, but that's the exception and we need to prove ourselves consistently, which hasn't happened in this arena....yet....fingers crossed.

SW17LS

I think people overstate two things...they overstate the lack of work ethic in the US, and they overstate the strength of the work ethic in Japan.

We can make a list of the egregious safety violations that Japanese designed and built Toyotas have been sold with, and remember Toyota was formally reprimanded by the attorney general for knowingly producing vehicles with dangerous defects, and for covering up that knowledge. So...Japan isn't what it once was.

Takata airbags? Japanese company.

I had two Sony televisions manufactured in Japan, both of which crapped out very early and were replaced with much higher quality Korean Samsung units. My Korean built Kia Sedona is put together way better than any of my modern Lexus vehicles...except the LS....and I would rate that "even".

So in short, "made in Japan" doesn't mean what it used to.

kellens

I don't discount your personal experiences, but I think some people feel passionately about products made in their own country and can't be objective to historical issues or in short, what "made in [another country]" means.

I wish USA just made better products to the point that topics like this wouldn't be a valid question, and that we stopped making excuses about mindsets or overstatements. Somewhere in the top 20 countries on the globe in math/reading/science scores and manufacturing would be nice and more of a statement.

SW17LS

I'm not at all of these "made in the USA" type people. I've driven Japanese made cars for a LONG time, I don't even look to see where things like clothing are made. I'm just saying that the entity running the manufacturing process is more important than the physical location of the manufacturing plant, and that this "culture" of precision in Japan is overstated.

kellens

Yea, no matter how long someone has driven cars, how old they are, or personal experiences with cars, clothes or TV buying, it's probably true that it's not the physical location of the plant, I don't think it's a longitude/latitude concern. It's finding enough outstanding workers and supervisors in the USA and a first year run on a factory....I hope it changes as much as anyone, but historically it's not in line with the 'culture' of Japan. Thus why Japanese supervisors are here whipping KY workers into shape to make a product within spec.

Not saying KY won't turn out just as nice of a car, the odds are just not in their favor historically, which is the question of the thread.

SW17LS

That's the thing, Japanese carmakers have been making cars here for a long time. What evidence shows that the odds of them turning out as good a car are not in their favor?

Lots of high end foreign cars are made in the US and build quality is very high

kellens

"very high" is very frequently a very relative statement and very misleading. Patriotism, and individual experiences aside, exceptions exist but makers seldom meet the same mark here than other factories outside the USA. I also sincerely wish USA stronger in these areas, less excuses made, and other nations flocked to USA for our workers to be exported for a consistent work standard and expertise. It can be done. We're an economic/shipping last resort for them now, and they tend to come only after they've gotten the product as close to idiot proof as possible in assembly elsewhere.

As jtrue28 pointed out earlier in the post, right now, it's mostly Japanese workers on the line in KY Lexus plant teaching those they can from the USA job pool that meet their minimum standards. Not an rapid task, KY has one of the higher welfare takes. In Japan, welfare to foreign workers is exactly zero and for nationals only a fifth of those eligible for it who are <65 actually take it, unfathomable in the USA.

Nothing is absolute, but those who actually do the research, and not solicit for hand out of evidence to provided to them here without doing the homework themselves, would unlikely pick at this time the exact same car built on a first year USA factory over one built successfully in Japan for decades.

Buy whatever you feel gives you the best bang for your buck if it puts a smile on your face!

SW17LS

What evidence do you have that US plants put out Toyotas and Hondas and Acuras and BMWs and Mercedes that are of lower quality than than Japanese and German plants that isn't subjective or derived from your own prejudices? Your viewpoint here is no different than mine, it's just on the other side. You have a prejudice against US built products vs foreign built products and that prejudice is at work here, not any factual information that I've ever seen. If you have some other factual information I would honestly like to see it.

You're implying that I haven't done research and that I'm giving anecdotal evidence, how is that different from what you're doing? It isn't.

bc6152

My personal FEELING is that the quality of cars built in Japan and Germany is better than those built here, but historically there is no evidence that I'm aware of that validates that. As I've spent some time in Germany and speaking to an auto worker there, he complains of "foreign workers who take German jobs" and that "the quality has declined due to this". So therein lies the paradox...

SW17LS

Thats exactly my point. Thats a prejudice that is difficult to overcome. The bottom line is that these companies have been making cars here a long time. The Georgetown plant is new for a Lexus line, but the plant has been around a long time producing Camrys that auto journalists and consumers alike sit back and talk about having superior build quality to domestic cars...when those cars were built right here in that same plant.

People react like this is some new thing that we have to wait and see how it flushes out...and it isn't. The build quality of a "Lexus" is not that different from that of a "Toyota". Hondas and Acuras constantly get high praise for build quality...and they've been built right here for years.

To bring math scores and science scores into it. Math and science skills aren't required to bolt a door on within an assembly line...here or in Japan lol

Maikerusan

Yet the Lexington Herald Leader reported this in the following article, so even they felt there would be build differences between a Lexus ES350 and a Toyota



Tolerance for quality variances are tiny for Toyota models; for Lexus they are miniscule, part of what leads Kelley Blue Book to praise its "bulletproof reliability" among mid-size luxury cars.


Rest here:
http://www.kentucky.com/news/busines...e44510304.html

SW17LS

Read what they said, "quality variances are tiny for Toyota models, for Lexus they are miniscule." Thats pretty much the same as what I said "the build quality is not that different".

Of course there are differences, but those differences aren't enormous.

kellens

Hahaha, no, that's not 'pretty much the same you said', but at least now it's not all just mindset and overgeneralizations.

USA focusing on fixing the problems at hand so we are the ones going to other countries factories to show how it's done would be more beneficial than excuses or only pointing out how little we're losing by. There's a lot of other data out there worth digging up if bored. And as this thread shows by some members, there's a lot of pushback by USA builders and unions on how we're not 'that bad'.