SW17LS

Then where is the clear evidence that US built Toyotas and Hondas and BMWs and Acuras and Mercedes are deficient in build quality? With such a cut and dried difference as you state, this evidence should be easy to come by.

I've owned 7 Lexus products, all built in Japan, and during that time I've owned multiple other brands built in the US, Mexico, Korea, as well as one Toyota built in Japan and one Toyota built in the US. 5 of those 7 Lexus vehicles built in the vaulted Tahara plant, widely recognized as one of if not the highest quality auto manufacturing plants on earth. In my experience the "incredible" build quality is overstated, and it isn't what it used to be. It's very good, but other companies are manufacturing product just as good in other plants today around the world. I've owned those products. Yes, one of those products was built in the US.

LexBob2

While this discussion is interesting, in the end the consumer (actual car buyers) will make the decision as to whether moving ES350 production to Ky. was a mistake or not. Quality issues won't surface until well into the model year or future years. My guess is that it won't make much of a difference in sales/success of the ES, while improving Toyota/Lexus' bottom line.

SW17LS

99% of buyers don't even know where they're made.

kellens

Your USA work ethic not to do your own research is an on-point example to the post! If not sure how to search facts or historical data of vehicles manufactured in different countries, seek counsel, I'm not looking to be hired or volunteered and didn't point out one specific study or would have posted it for convenience. Of course KY plant line unknown, it's brand new. Plenty of historical data out there easy to come by about other makes domestic and foreign, including the Mercedes line in Alabama since that brand being made in USA was mentioned.

I looked back and don't see where anyone here mentioned "incredible" differences, and that wasn't the topic of original post. We've repetitively heard "your vast experience" with your cars, TVs and clothes, and that you feel anything contrary is overstatement or mindset issue in your opinion. I respect differences in opinion, and acknowledge the 'made in America' mentality has no shortage of fans. Hasn't helped out product quality improve though historically, not basing this on my personal experiences. I'm not being unpatriotic, but I don't see the benefit making excuses, or bragging how 'USA is less worse than everyone makes us out to be compared to other countries' education, manufacturing and labor".

kellens

IMO you're right on, many assume they're made in Japan when they buy, just as many sold to believe their BMW/Mercedes are all made in Germany. At least for now, ES350 will mostly be made by Japanese work-force and talent, just on US soil for American buyers.

jtrue28

Exactly. #10char

Hriley

I don't believe the 99% guess is right, but I'm sure it is a lot, and sadly in America many buyers wouldn't know where their car was built, or understand why there is some importance in it if they're looking for build quality or the best chance of a trouble free car. Many very uneducated in general about automobile industry or how to find value, and very content being such. Personal experiences don't really matter. It's not an adequate sample size to generate a statistically significant p-value and shows some ignorance to statistics to overly on it. Buying a BMW, Nissan or Mercedes of identical model and year in the USA with few exceptions has well documented issues with much worse reliability than one made in their South America, German, or other manufacturing sites. This is not just due to the final manufacturing site, but that even the contractors and vendors for some of the parts for the from the car come from third tier vendors.

Finding qualified labor in America is possible. The company I work for (who employs a few hundred thousand) isn't alone and spends millions having to bring in most of our talent from other countries for too few people in America willing to work, or passionalely strive to be higher qualified. I can imagine in the field of manufacturing it may be worse, labor union vs management vs how litigious our society is, add on too many of our population quite frankly are content to be on welfare or unemployment. The millennial generation is a topic on it's own that wouldn't yield for Unites States of America to be a very good manufacturing location, yet well researched.

Not taking my considerations of cars purchased into account, that really doesn't matter. I wouldn't buy an ES350 from the KY plant when there's another option. It's a new plant, which statistically has worse long term reliability, and compound this with it coming from statistically one of the countries with the worst records. And no, for the statistics illiterate, that doesn't mean you're guaranteed to get a junker, or that someone with one built in Japan will have one with issues, and yours here doesn't, it just means across hundreds of thousands of units, the ones built in Asian countries (as well as some others) will have fewer problems.

jtrue28

I'll bite.

I live here. Having a job "with Toyota" and now Lexus is a homerun job with a lot of folks that live here. When news gets out that they're hiring...it's like the government handing out cash. People are lined up for miles just to have the opportunity to maybe get on at Toyota. So having to measure up to the quality that Toyota/Lexus expects means you have to do a good job. People don't want to lose their job at Toyota. The plant has been there for going on 30 years now. The Lexus line is "new", but a lot of the "new plant" kinks have been worked out many years ago. The only issue now is the extremely different QC that goes into Lexus versus Toyota. They'll get it worked out. Are there this many complaints with the Cambridge plant and the RX?

SW17LS

I haven't seen any complaints about the RXs built in Cambridge.

Not sure why my requests to see the proof that quality declined when the many foreign makes started making cars here is viewed as such an unreasonable request lol. If you're going to make a bold statement like that, back it up or just admit that the only basis from which you're making that statement is your own prejudice.

JDR76

The Cambridge plant has done quite well. I see no reason why that cannot be accomplished in Lexington as well.

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/articles...-study-results

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/cambridg...ity-1.1876938#

LexBob2

I was looking at Consumer Reports Predicted Reliability information on the Camry and Avalon from their Owner Surveys.. The information goes back 8 model years. For the Camry, nearly all areas measured are either Above Average or Well Above Average. There were 4 instances/areas at Average scattered in two model years that turned into the higher rating in the following years. The Avalon had similar ratings, except for 3 black marks for Power Equipment and In Car Electronics that also turned red marks in following model years. Nothing there seems to indicated any ongoing, persistent problems from the Ky. plant.

SW17LS

Very interesting JDR, Cambridge winning platinum while Kyushu (where Japan made ESs are made) only won gold.

kellens

If you don't research a little bit, of course you wouldn't know, and think anyone who thinks differently than you is prejudiced! Your experiences would only be limited to your own to recapitulate. I didn't mention one particular study, or would have posted if tor ease. And I'm aware that Cambridge RX has held up well, as well as Avalon and Camry. Their first years did not do so decades ago, but the Japanese tightened the noose on American workers and it's improved greatly to be a model as I understand it. Nobody had to ask you to send "proof" for me to read this from other sources. To ask for proof comes across hypocritical and lazy considering your several posts on here about the USA work ethic.

Hriley

Interesting thread. It's a crazy world. Buick now making more cars in China than USA, and with their highest quality surveys ever for an SUV.

No offense meant to you jtrue28, or people you know who work there at the plants since you live there. I'm sure there are some very hard working people there and the Japanese management keeps them to a higher standard. I'm sure it's a prestigious job. America's relatively low standing in the world of manufacturing is a very personal topic for some, I don't mean it as such. I wasn't just talking about just Toyota or Lexus. Was talking about other brands as well. I agree if Japanese can whip the workers there in shape it will get it worked out like in Cambridge. (Wish we could do it without Japanese oversight) They have to do better than Mercedes has been doing with their expanding and problem prone Tuscaloosa plant. (See JD power surveys for last 10 years and dealer service bulletins specific ONLY to US build Mercedes for info....there you go SW15LS to save you the effort....and if we ask for proof of all your 13K posts without them...we'll be here all night!)

SW17LS

I've actually never said anything about US work ethic or made any pro US labor statements whatsoever. As I said before, I am not a "buy US made" sort of person. I probably own nothing right now that was built in or made in the US. Well, very little...and whatever it might be I have no idea.

This is actually something I've done a lot of research into, I spend a lot of time looking at quality ratings and such, as somebody who's been an auto enthusiast for a long time.

What "proof" would you like me to send? You're the one making statements like the following:

I would ask you where the basis for that statement came from. What information have you seen that has shown that the first years of these Toyota/Honda plants in the US were problematic? What issues were there specifically?

You're just speaking anecdotally also is my point. You make fun of my "experience", but have you specifically owned US and Japanese made Toyotas? How many Lexus products have you owned and from how many different Lexus plants? Whether you want to admit it or not that experience has value.

The question was whether each of us would purchase a US built ES, my reply clearly is yes. I wouldn't specifically choose an ES based on where it was built, I'd be equally happy with a US built car or a Japan built car. I've never seen any evidence or data trend or group of complaints that leads me to believe that Toyota has had an issue with build quality on vehicles built here vs those built in Japan, plenty of people have posted strong statements otherwise but when pressed as to what basis by which they've come to those conclusions...we get nothing but insults. People can make up their own minds, I'm out.