Suspension modifications for a softer ride
05-07-17, 10:25 PM
#91
I'm in the market for this generation ES, and I have to say after having one for the day, I can't believe how ridiculously firm it rides. I had a ES300 and currently drive an LS430 with 17" rims. I loved the ride of both. The new ES I was surprised was so taut.
I'm sure some of the problem was the 18" rims that were on the vehicle, but still, why on Earth did Lexus make this vehicle have such a taut ride? Every little expansion joint just boomed through the car. They have the GS for people that want that "Autobahn" ride. The ES was always supposed to be a softer riding luxury car. Consumer Reports also dinged it for its ride quality.
Has anyone put 16" rims on one? I drove back to back a Camry and ES, and the Camry had a perfect ride and was on 16" rims.
I'm sure some of the problem was the 18" rims that were on the vehicle, but still, why on Earth did Lexus make this vehicle have such a taut ride? Every little expansion joint just boomed through the car. They have the GS for people that want that "Autobahn" ride. The ES was always supposed to be a softer riding luxury car. Consumer Reports also dinged it for its ride quality.
Has anyone put 16" rims on one? I drove back to back a Camry and ES, and the Camry had a perfect ride and was on 16" rims.
05-08-17, 10:07 AM
#93
anyone have any insight into whether Lexus is going to firm up the ride on the new 2018 LS ? Havent seen any test drive reports around yet
05-08-17, 10:08 AM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
Nobody has driven it yet, they just have two show cars from what I've heard, it will be a long while still until somebody drives it.
05-08-17, 10:16 AM
#95
That's what I'm leaning towards, I honestly love the car, but my LS430 is getting close to 180k miles (2004) and I just put some major repairs in and think it might be time to move on. It's been an incredibly reliable car, but when you start getting close to 200k miles, that's when things start falling apart. I just don't have the time or energy for repairs anymore. It's also starting to look a bit weathered.
The smart money would be to just drive it until the wheels fall off, but I just don't want the headaches.
I'm not crazy about the 2008-2012 LS460, in many ways they downgraded the LS430. I like the current generation LS, but it's more than I want to spend on a car, The current ES is 90% of what I need, I just hate that they decided to try and make it into a BMW wannabe. The old ES I had was a wonderful car, it actually rode even nicer than my LS. I like the lines on the new one. I'm thinking if I put some smaller rims on it, it could be the ticket.
There's just no "perfect" car for the price range I'm looking at, but I'm also considering an Avalon.
05-08-17, 10:28 AM
#96
I agree with you Brad. Now I have the latest gen ES300h, and possibly the hybrid is firmer than the 350. I dont know until I get a loaner 350 to compare. But I'm assuming they are similar. Given that, the new gen is firmer than older generations. I have 17 inch wheels. Have lowered pressure to 28-30 with only minimal change. I doubt going from 17 inch to 16 would make that much difference. My 4th Gen ES was on 16 inch wheels but I doubt just the 1 inch wheel size was the difference - it was a softer luxurious car. I have seen what Consumer reports have written and I agree with them. For the latest Generation ES, its a firmer ride, and yet not a sophisticated one
I definitely think rim size can make a substantial difference, but even on smaller rims, the newer ES is probably just going to be firmer than they used to be even on a smaller rim. They definitely firmed up the suspension beyond just the 18" wheel offering. But a 16" rim might neutralize most of it.
I don't need a "marshmallow" ride (I've owned a Cadillac and Oldsmobiles like that) but I straight up felt the new ES was uncomfortable on 18" rims and went back to back with a new Camry on 16" rims that felt pretty perfect. And whatever handling advantage you got out of the ES with it's firmer suspension and louder road noise was lost on me. Just every little road imperfection seemed to boom into the cabin.
It's just sadly ironic that the "luxury" offering was less luxurious than a bare bones rental Camry.
05-08-17, 11:24 AM
#97
Lexus Fanatic
I really think you need to drive another ES350. I too have had an identical LS430 to yours, I have an LS460 I've had ES's in the past. I drive the current ES as a loaner fairly frequently, I just don't see it as you're describing it. It's not as nice as the LS, but it's still a very nice riding car.
05-08-17, 12:58 PM
#98
I really think you need to drive another ES350. I too have had an identical LS430 to yours, I have an LS460 I've had ES's in the past. I drive the current ES as a loaner fairly frequently, I just don't see it as you're describing it. It's not as nice as the LS, but it's still a very nice riding car.
Is there a reason you keep arguing with people about what sort of ride they prefer? Especially a car you don't even actually own? This whole thread is about people wanting to find ways to get a softer ride out of their ES; with you debating with everyone there's nothing wrong with the way it rides.
It's almost like arguing with someone over what their favorite color is.
Ride quality a very subjective thing, one person may like a certain ride quality, others don't.
There is NO argument though that Lexus has firmed up the suspension on this ES generation, and many core customers simply don't like it. Even automotive publications have noticed. It goes way beyond tire pressure.
If you're part of the group that likes it when you got is as a loaner, great, but you're not the final authority on ride quality and many people over the years bought this car for the serene ride, not for its aggressive handling.
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BradTank (05-08-17)
05-08-17, 01:44 PM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
If you don't want to read what I have to say put me on your ignore list.
I don't see the difference some of you are describing, and IMO much of your ride concerns come down to things you can actually improve, such as wheel size and tire pressure. What I don't understand is why people are resistant to trying something that may alleviate an issue you're having with your cars. It's almost as if people want to complain just to complain, but aren't actually interested in a workable solution.
The title of the thread is "modifications for a softer ride", well, what I've offered are simple modifications that based on my experience will improve the ride. I never said I was an authority on ride comfort but seeing that this poster and I have repeatedly selected the same vehicles to purchase I think we probably like a similar ride.
I don't see the difference some of you are describing, and IMO much of your ride concerns come down to things you can actually improve, such as wheel size and tire pressure. What I don't understand is why people are resistant to trying something that may alleviate an issue you're having with your cars. It's almost as if people want to complain just to complain, but aren't actually interested in a workable solution.
The title of the thread is "modifications for a softer ride", well, what I've offered are simple modifications that based on my experience will improve the ride. I never said I was an authority on ride comfort but seeing that this poster and I have repeatedly selected the same vehicles to purchase I think we probably like a similar ride.
05-08-17, 02:10 PM
#100
Lead Lap
If you read threads that have been on this board since the Generation 6 ES was introduced almost 5 years, you will find posts from people who are convinced that the the Generation 6 ES has a firmer ride than did the ES of previous generations and ones from people who would prefer a softer ride, but you will also find posts from people who don't see a (meaningful) difference between the Generation 6 ES ride quality and that from previous generation ES vehicles, and you will also find posts from people who would prefer that the ES had ride firmer. Thus, it appears that there never will be a consensus on this issue.
I will point out, though, that there are 2 factors, other than the firmness of the suspension system itself, that might lead to a perception that the Generation 6 ES has a firmer suspension. Not only does the Generation 6 ES have available lower profile tires (and larger wheels) than previous generations of the ES, but the recommended tire pressure is also several pounds higher. The Generation 4 ES that I previously owned had higher profile tires and the recommended tire pressure was 29 psi (compared to 33 psi on the Generation 6 ES). I have no question that the combination of those two factors would make a noticeable difference in perceived ride quality.
That said, I would have had difficulty noticing any difference in ride firmness/softness between that of the Generation 4 ES that I owned and the 2013 ES with 17 inch wheels that I also previously owned. The 2017 ES that I now own has the 18 inch wheels, and, while its ride may be a bit firmer than that of the 2013 ES with 17 inch wheels, I would hardly describe it as being firm or harsh, and, if I lower the pressure in the tires of the 2017 ES to the 29 psi that was used with my Generation 4 ES, I don't believe that I'd notice any difference in its ride quality compared to that of the Generation 4 ES.
As others have pointed out, the cars that are delivered to the dealers from the factory generally come with tires that are filled to 6 or 7 or more psi higher than the 33 psi recommendation, and I suspect that some (including auto reviewers) think of the ride as being too firm as a result of test driving cars that were on dealer lots with over-inflated tires.
I will point out, though, that there are 2 factors, other than the firmness of the suspension system itself, that might lead to a perception that the Generation 6 ES has a firmer suspension. Not only does the Generation 6 ES have available lower profile tires (and larger wheels) than previous generations of the ES, but the recommended tire pressure is also several pounds higher. The Generation 4 ES that I previously owned had higher profile tires and the recommended tire pressure was 29 psi (compared to 33 psi on the Generation 6 ES). I have no question that the combination of those two factors would make a noticeable difference in perceived ride quality.
That said, I would have had difficulty noticing any difference in ride firmness/softness between that of the Generation 4 ES that I owned and the 2013 ES with 17 inch wheels that I also previously owned. The 2017 ES that I now own has the 18 inch wheels, and, while its ride may be a bit firmer than that of the 2013 ES with 17 inch wheels, I would hardly describe it as being firm or harsh, and, if I lower the pressure in the tires of the 2017 ES to the 29 psi that was used with my Generation 4 ES, I don't believe that I'd notice any difference in its ride quality compared to that of the Generation 4 ES.
As others have pointed out, the cars that are delivered to the dealers from the factory generally come with tires that are filled to 6 or 7 or more psi higher than the 33 psi recommendation, and I suspect that some (including auto reviewers) think of the ride as being too firm as a result of test driving cars that were on dealer lots with over-inflated tires.
05-08-17, 05:05 PM
#101
Lexus Fanatic
Not a lot I can add to lesz's post above.
As an example, test driving cars I commonly find tires aired well over 40-45PSI. When they ship cars they inflate the tires real high so they won't flat-spot. For instance we drove a Chrysler Pacifica van last week shopping for my wife and the PSI were all over 50! That has a huge impact on the ride quality. So like I said, before you write a car off, make sure the tires are inflated properly on the car that you test drive.
For those of you that refuse to try lower pressures...if you would try lower pressures I think you would be astonished by the difference.
As an example, test driving cars I commonly find tires aired well over 40-45PSI. When they ship cars they inflate the tires real high so they won't flat-spot. For instance we drove a Chrysler Pacifica van last week shopping for my wife and the PSI were all over 50! That has a huge impact on the ride quality. So like I said, before you write a car off, make sure the tires are inflated properly on the car that you test drive.
For those of you that refuse to try lower pressures...if you would try lower pressures I think you would be astonished by the difference.
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jollick (05-08-17)
05-08-17, 07:40 PM
#102
So the reason why people think this generation ES has a firmer suspension is because... it has a firmer suspension.
It's not just perception.
Consumer Reports
"I noticed right away that the ride lacked the trademark Lexus "pillowiness." Some bumps punched through in a pronounced, unwelcomed way. Road noise also seemed to be less suppressed compared to the outgoing ES."
"The redesigned 2013 ES tries to appeal to a younger audience by promising a sportier demeanor, but instead, it scaled back on ride comfort and ended up with more complicated controls.
The car is stiffer riding than the ES it replaces, based on seat time with examples borrowed from Lexus. "
05-09-17, 03:19 AM
#103
If you over spring a car, such as what Lexus did a few years ago, tires aren't going to help you, trust me. I've tried it all. It's not shocks, it's not rims, it's springs. Sure you can change that stuff out but it's getting increasingly harder and harder to find 16, even 17" rims for our cars, and it's pretty much impossible to find softer shocks, and totally impossible to find softer springs. All you can do is air down your tires and ride it out. Or buy an older car, which is what I'm looking for now. I don't care what anyone says, nothing rides like an older car, and you're not lapping Nurburgring; give up that silly "it handles better" because no one's putting their Lexus through the slalom with the family loaded up, and en route to dinner lol.
05-09-17, 05:57 AM
#104
Having a '16 ES with 17" Michelins, I will support the fact that tire pressure makes a complete difference in the way the car rides. I actually run my pressures up 3-4 lbs. when I am going to be driving on curvy, mountain roads (1/2 of the Arkansas highways), and then lower back for day to day driving. Cold pressure at 30 psi makes a distinguishably softer ride, than the 33 or 35 that I use for 'sportier' handling.
05-09-17, 06:42 AM
#105
So the reason why people think this generation ES has a firmer suspension is because... it has a firmer suspension.
It's not just perception.
Consumer Reports
"I noticed right away that the ride lacked the trademark Lexus "pillowiness." Some bumps punched through in a pronounced, unwelcomed way. Road noise also seemed to be less suppressed compared to the outgoing ES."
"The redesigned 2013 ES tries to appeal to a younger audience by promising a sportier demeanor, but instead, it scaled back on ride comfort and ended up with more complicated controls.
The car is stiffer riding than the ES it replaces, based on seat time with examples borrowed from Lexus. "
It's not just perception.
Consumer Reports
"I noticed right away that the ride lacked the trademark Lexus "pillowiness." Some bumps punched through in a pronounced, unwelcomed way. Road noise also seemed to be less suppressed compared to the outgoing ES."
"The redesigned 2013 ES tries to appeal to a younger audience by promising a sportier demeanor, but instead, it scaled back on ride comfort and ended up with more complicated controls.
The car is stiffer riding than the ES it replaces, based on seat time with examples borrowed from Lexus. "
Although this move is great for enthusiasts, it has alienated the bread and butter mass volume buyers.
It will be interesting how Toyota Motor Corporation feedback surveys affect the next generation of 7ES's due to be released next year in 2018.
We may even get an earlier idea late this as the next gen 2018 5LS gets released; if the next LS suspension has been firmed up then...
