The current 6ES is actually not the firmest ES in history.
I have never driven the 1990 1ES250.
However, I have driven the 1992 2ES300, and I owned the 1996 3ES300.
Both the 2ES and 3ES were much more firmly sprung and damped than today's 6.5ES.
However, both 2ES and 3ES had very baggy Bridgestone Potenza RE88 205/65R15 with a lower 88V load and speed rating.

Due to large front brake rotor sizes, it is difficult to downsize rims.
With the 6ES, it may be possible to downsize to 17" rims, and possibly 16" rims with some research.

Other than that, the only other way is to:
1) use soft carcass tires like the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Seasons Plus, and
2) lower the tire pressures from 33 down to 32, 31, or even 30 PSI, but take care not to speed on low tire pressures, because lower pressures result in increase heat build up, and possibly tire blow-outs.
Lower tire pressures also cause premature wearing of the outside edges of each tire, so keep an eye on tread wear regularly.
Fuel consumption and handling will also suffer as a result.

Ultimately, change vehicle make and models.
I actually read somewhere that the new 2016-2023 E Class sedans are firmer than before???

 

Pete, you say "it may be possible" to downsize the ES to 17" rims, just to make sure it's clear the 6ES does come standard with 17s, most of them are on 17s, only the UL 350 has 18s. So any ES can ride on 17s (brakes are the same on the UL).

Also on pressures, I ran my GS at 31, and I run my LS at 31. No unusual wear to either. 26k miles on my Pirelli P7s on the LS, no issues. A couple of pounds isn't going to increase heat or cause blowouts. Remember, older Lexus cars they recommended much lower pressures.

 

I ran my OEM Dunlop SP Sport Maxx 050's at lower than recommended tire pressures for a year and a half.
I normally run mine at 33 PSI, and check once a month only, and by then, it has often fallen to only 30 PSI.
Day to day, I did not notice any unusual shoulder wear at all.
However, after a year and a half when the tires were actually removed from the wheels, on close inspection, there was mild to moderate shoulder wear.

Nearly 20 years ago, I was in an Audi A4 with a relative in Paris.
We were cruising along the highway at 60 mph, when an SNCF train ripped past us at about 120 mph. Their trains are faster than their cars over there!
Shortly after that, my relative's Audi A4 suffered a tire blow-out.
He was struggling to control the steering as he braked down.

This post is intended as a caution only...

 

Judging the "final product" though is the way I'm looking at it, not what the actual spring rates were. If you put 18"+ rims and low profile tires on a mid nineties ES, I'm sure it rides like crap.
But it's Lexus job to figure out how to make the car have a luxury car ride with the wheels it comes with. If they are going to insist on having the car come with larger rims from the factory, they need to adjust the rest of the suspension accordingly.


Having owned a 3rd generation ES, it had a WAAAAY softer ride.
I also had a lot of road time behind a 2nd generation ES "way back when" and it also had an old school "Buick" type ride.

I hope the automakers resist the urge to keep going to bigger and bigger rims. It honestly looks silly and there's so many drawback. If it were up to me, they'd stop at about 17".
People that want the cosmetics of giant rims always go aftermarket anyway.

 

The only way to overcome the issue of larger wheels and still maintaining the ride is adaptive suspension systems. You find them in cars over the ES price point, for instance my GS rode fine with the AVS suspension and the 18" wheels.

The tech will trickle down to the ES price level. The C Class has an adaptive option for instance.

Anyways what matters is the sidewall, not the wheel diameter. My LS has 18s but 50 Series tires, same as the ES on 17s I believe.

 

Just for information, the ES with 17 inch wheels has 55 series tires, and the ES with 18 inch wheels has 45 series tires.

 

I owned two previous gen ES350's and IMO while they both rode very well, nether handled all that well. Some of the German brands seem to have found the right balance between ride and handling, but they often do have a firm but compliant ride which may be too firm for some. The new Buick Lacrosse has received some good reviews on its ride/handling. It will be interesting to see how Lexus addresses this issue in the next gen ES.

 

Couldn't remember if it was 55 or 50, 55s are what my LS430 had on it with 17s. 50s are still a tall sidewall and may even be as tall or taller as the LS460 has wider tires. My GS had 45 Series tires on 18s and the LS460 is 45 Series tires on 19s. I drove one with the 19s and felt the difference in the ride which is why I chose mine on 18s even though the 19s look a lot better.

 

You're right Brad.
It's up to the engineers to match the dynamic parameters of a motor car like: the center of gravity to wheelbase and track ratios, the unsprung and sprung mass, spring, spring travel, damper, wheels, tires, and air pressure etc - to deliver a comfortable ride.
It's as simple as the base model C and E Class Benzes matching 19" rims with softer spring rates, and NO electronic automatic variable shock absorbers at all like Lexus' GS flagship AVS system.
Be careful that Lexus' AVS electronic automatically variable shock absorber valving alone is not enough to deliver a great ride.

The lower the center of gravity to wheelbase or track ratio, the less the pitching and rolling the occupants feel.
Too low or too high a center of gravity, and there are certain issues.
Meanwhile too long a wheelbase, or too wide the track, then the body structure begins to weaken and flex.

Another dynamic parameter is the "Polar Moment of Inertia", ie whether the average mass is concentrated towards the center of gravity, or spread far away from the center of gravity.
The more the average mass is concentrated towards the center of gravity, the lower the polar moment of inertia, and the more rapidly the vehicle will "yaw", that change directions due to steering input.

The lighter the unsprung mass of the hub, brake rotors, brake callipers, wheels and tires, the less the momentum imparted into the body of a motor car after impact with bumps.
Large ventilated brake rotors, large heavy twin piston callipers, large & wide wheels, and wide low profile tires will all increase the unsprung mass, resulting in more momentum being channelled into the body after impact with bumps.

However, the heavier the mass of the sprung body/chassis, the slower the frequency of oscillation and the more comfortable the ride.
Think of it like a heavy gun, or a heavy baseball bat; the heavier the gun, and the heavier the bat, the slower the recoil velocity on impact!

An excessively soft spring rate will "bottom-out".
The right spring rate will give compliancy [spring compression] and the best ride.
Firm springing is rigid, and does not absorb bumps nor shock.

Excessively soft shock absorber fluid/pressures/valving results in excessive floatiness.
Just the right shock absorber viscosity and valving gives best comfort.
Viscous shock absorber fluid and firm valving causes a high frequency of body oscillation, giving a tiring ride.

Excessively short spring travel causes bottoming out.
Excessively long spring travel is comfortable, but results in too much body roll, hence weight transfer to the outside wheels, resulting in the car two-wheeling to diminish grip around turns.

The higher the load and speed rating of a tire of the exact same make, model and size, the firmer the ride will be, but the better the handling will be.
Needless to say, wheels size, tire size, tire compound and construction, and tire pressures must be balance to give the desired handling/ride compromise.

There are also other geometric dynamic parameters like: steering king pin angle, steering castor angle, toe angles, and camber angles etc.
Eg the greater the castor angle, the greater the directional stability, but the lazier the steering response/turn-in...
.

 

When I made my original post last year, I did not expect it to generate this much interest or such a lengthy, sometimes spirited discussion. I've enjoyed reading all the posts and thank everyone for your constructive suggestions and thoughtful observations.

So, I thought I'd give an update on my situation. You might recall that I was interested in ways to give a my 2015 ES 350 with 17" wheels a softer ride. Instead of trying to mess with suspension or switch to 16" wheels and tires, I decided to go shopping for a new car.

I drove the 2017 Genesis G80 and was very impressed with the entire package. To me, the ride is similar to that of the LS 460--it feels very substantial and has a more refined, big-car ride than the ES 350. The "Ultimate Package" has almost every imaginable luxury and technological feature. At $51,500, it is a terrific value. Unfortunately, we could not find any seat and headrest position (and there are numerous adjustments) that did not give my wife a severe neck ache. I found the seats/headrest very comfortable, but unfortunately that car did not work out.

The car that worked for both my wife and I is the 2017 LS 460, so that's what we wound up getting. Fortunately, we were able to nab one of the limited-run "Nightfall Edition" cars with the dark blue Nightfall Mica exterior and the dark brown interior. As you may know, it has a very nice ride that is softer and more refined than the 2015 ES 350. Unfortunately, like every 2017 LS 460 I researched at dealers throughout California, this one comes equipped with the optional 19" wheels. In fact, in all my on-line searches of dealer inventories throughout the state, I did not find one 2017 LS 460 with the standard 18" wheels. On the plus side, the wheels on the Nightfall Edition are chrome, dual 7-spoke beauties in my opinion.

Since I wanted the 18" wheels instead of the 19" ones for a more comfortable ride, I tried to get that accomplished while purchasing the car, but there were no new cars with 18" wheels to swap with. Besides, the dealer told me (and I heard this from another dealer as well) that they will not sell a car with different wheels than are specified on the sticker, so they do not do swaps like this. To change to 18" wheels and tires, the dealer quoted me a "discounted" price of over $3,500, so I passed on that option. In fairness to the dealer, they did give me a good price on the car.

I know there are other options to change to 18" wheels, though I'm not keen on reconditioned wheels and reluctant to buy them on E-Bay without really knowing the history. Anyway, I'm still considering my options, but in the meantime, enjoying the new LS.

Thanks again everyone.

 

Congrats! You will love the car, it's a keeper. The G80 is also a great car and your opinion of it reminding you of the LS460 was exactly my experience as well.

The nightfall edition is great, I love the interior. As for the 19s, I wouldn't stress. Mine has the 18s, and I actually drove one the other day for a member in the LS forum he was thinking about buying from out of state that had the 19s and I was surprised to find not much difference between the two. Ever so slight perhaps, but I would certainly not blow $3k to get the 18s.

 

Thanks very much, SW15LS!

Very good to know that you didn't find that much difference in the ride comfort between the LS with 19" wheels and the one with 18" wheels. Do you know which tires were on the 19" car? Your sense that there is not much difference in the ride seems to correspond to the small difference in the sidewall height of the two tires. The 19" wheels come with 245-45 tires while the standard 18" wheels have 235-50 tires. So the difference in sidewall height is only 7.25 mm. or about 0.29"--not a whole lot.

You might be interested that for the fun of it, I swapped my original Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 tires for the Pirelli P7 All Season Plus to see if could get a better ride. Guess what? I thought the Michelins rode slightly better and I didn't notice any difference in noise, so I put the original Michelins back on the car. The Pirellis caused the car to pull to the right, so that problem with at least one of the tires may have contributed to my sense of the ride comfort. Anyway, that was my experience.

Thanks for the advice not to stress about the wheels. I feel much better now.

 

The one I drove had the MXV4 S8, and they were pretty worn. Still very smooth and quiet.

Yeah I wouldn't replace those until they're worn. The P7s in my experience improve once they're broken in 800-1000 miles or so and like you said there was an issue with at least one of the tires you had. When the MXV4s wear out I'd replace them with those. It's hard to find the MXV4s anywhere as a replacement.

 

I would think you could go to just the Lexus dealer and buy the factory 18" wheels from them through their parts department. I would go through an online Lexus dealers as there is likely a substantial discount than your local dealer. Then just go to a tire store and have them mounted.

You could then sell your existing 19" wheels and tires on a place like CraigsList and probably get a pretty decent amount for them. Some tire shops will also buy them.

It's not as ideal, but I could see you getting what you want, everything being brand new and factory, and not being out of pocket much money. There are also quality aftermarket rims you could buy for a lot less.

 

Honestly I wouldn't bother. Before I went to the trouble I'd go drive one on the 18s and see if you feel the difference.