dchar

Well the facelift came out for 2016MY, and Lexus seems to keep the model/style for about 3-4MY...so the next ES should arrive for 2019-2020MY.

McWitz

The ES needs to become "more refined"? Are you kidding me? It's already more refined then the others. It is meaningless to make it more powerful. It outsells three of the four cars you listed. In addition, it does not "compete" with RWD cars. FYI...top salesmen at Lexus dealers know more than people sitting at home thinking they are luxury experts just because they are on a "site". Broad generalizations are ignorant.

SW17LS

His point is that now Lexus has the GS to compete with those RWD sedan options from other competitors. If they no longer have the GS, they're going to have to improve the ES to help fill in that gap.

As to ".top salesmen at Lexus dealers know more than people sitting at home thinking they are luxury experts just because they are on a "site"" that has never been my experience in the slightest lol. I have *never* met a Lexus salesperson that knows even half as much about Lexus as I do, or as many people on this site do, and I've interacted with a LOT of Lexus salespeople over the 19 years I've been a customer of the brand. Thats not an issue with Lexus specifically, in general car salespeople are not especially skilled at being salespeople (good salespeople move on to industries where they can make more money), and they don't know their product nearly as well as true enthusiasts of cars and their brands do.

If you want real info about Lexus, this site is a MUCH better source than a Lexus salesperson.

dchar

You took my quote out of context...it was referring to the discontinuation of the GS. The GS is more refined than the ES; just look at the materials used below the midpoint of the dash (hard plastic in the ES, coated in the GS). Also, FWD just doesn't feel as refined as RWD or AWD. If the GS is discontinued, they would need to make the ES compete with the cars I mentioned. The ES in current state doesn't even come close to competing with the Germans. The ES is a nice car, but it really competes with Buick and Acura.

And...you are ignorant to think that salesmen know everything about what they are selling. I know more about the car than many of the salesmen that I have encountered.

bc6152

I would respectfully disagree with you as far as your comments stating that Lexus cannot compare with the German imports. Before I bought my Lexus I looked at an Audi A5, a Buick Lacrosse, and a MB 300. I have driven the European version of these cars - including the Buick which was an Insignia and built in Germany - and decided, after all, that the Lexus was for me. If you're looking for performance and sportiness then no. If you're looking for a car voted most reliable, priced right, a large slice of luxury, then it's Lexus. Many members of this forum have owned these cars and correctly state that they were fun until the warranty ran out. I do agree that salesman, for the most part, are ignorant of most of what is happening and planned inside the automobile industry. The members in this forum continue to amaze me with their knowledge and experience.

SW17LS

You're the example of that buyer though that having the proper setup car isn't of value. You may look at a C Class MB but discount it quickly because of the size. Most 3 Series or C Class buyers aren't going to cross shop the ES, it really is an entirely different sort of car.

amphiprion

Not true. The ES competes directly with MB and BMW's comparably priced and sized products. Many folks in this forum have cross shopped German rivals, from the C300 to the 5 series. The ES delivers on peace of mind, quiet, understated luxury which based on conquest sales of the ES from those two brands has had them moving towards a Lexus-like drive and interiors.

Can the ES compete with a 3 series on the pacific coast highway? No, but then again the typical ES buyer couldn't care less about flat cornering, sport appearance packages, artificial engine noise resonators or quarter mile times, never have.

SW17LS

The ES absorbs the "non enthusiast midsize" buyer for Lexus, that buyer also buys low spec 5 Series and such, but the ES does not compete for the enthusiast buyer who buys the GS or the 5 Series, E Class, etc. The point is that the ES cannot be made to compete for that buyer because of the sort of car it is at its core. So if Lexus were to cancel the GS, they would just abandon that segment entirely unless they were to do something huge with the ES, such as to put it on the GA-L platform.

I know people who have traded 5 Series for the ES for instance, but those people never understood or cared about the attributes of their 5 Series that made it superior to the ES. Buyers who do care absolutely do exist.

You just made our point for us, the typical ES Buyer and the typical 3 Series buyer are different buyers. There may be some crossover, but not much.

lesz

Several people have, in their posts, used the term "refined". That is a term that can mean different things to different people. Also, what any individual might think that the term means can change over time.

Twenty five years ago, if I thought of what refined means, I would have thought about things like handling, being a canyon carver, being able to accelerate through a decreasing radius turn, etc. Today, none of those things fit into what I would consider to be a "refined vehicle". Now, to me, refinement means quiet isolation of the cabin from wind, engine, and road noise, smooth and efficient power, inclusion of useful features that give me a feeling of being pampered, etc.

I suspect that, if you asked what refinement means on the GS board you would get very different answers than you would get if you asked the same question on the ES board. I also suspect that I'm not the only ES owner whose thoughts about refinement have changed over a period of time. While some would not think of the ES as being as refined as similarly priced German cars, others would not consider those German cars to be as refined as the ES. Depending on one's priorities, either could be correct.

jloftus

Smoothness of ride, power, and luxury for the Common Man (sort of). That's Lexus ES 350.

jloftus

Just don't lease it with a low mileage quota if you think you'll enjoy driving it too much. 8 months in, have 10,750 on it. I'm over by about 4000 miles.

;-(

SW17LS

I wouldn't worry about it too much. When you get to the end, just trade out of it instead of turning it in. Residuals are realistic on the ES.

jloftus

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean just go over to another Lexus lease? Won't they still roll the cost for the miles over into the new lease?

JDR76

At lease end, if your trade in value is at least as high as the residual, you can have it treated as a trade, rather than lease return.

This is how I've ended all of my leases thus far.

Mike728

I don't lease, but am wondering how/if this has any impact on taxes? If you don't own the car and only paid tax on what you "used", does trading it in change anything?