roninlexus

" Anyways, my guess is folks with nuluxe never get asked if its real leather"

I believe this to be the case, certainly for me so far- or as in last weekend when I took some folks to dinner; I was complimented twice on how nice the interior and "leather" seating was. My response was "thank you"....

lesz

Just to clarify, while early generations of the ES may have had a non-leather (cloth) option, through some of its history, the ES has come with standard leather.

I had a 2006 ES (Generation 4). My recollection was that it came with standard leather. So, I went back and checked the 2006 ES brochure that I saved, and I confirmed that it did come with standard leather. While I didn't own a Generation 5 ES, I was able to find brochures for a couple of years of the Generation 5 ES on line, and they also came with standard leather.

The 2006 ES that I had was a very nicely equipped car, and it had a MSRP in the low $40,000 range. The 2017 ES 350 that I bought several weeks ago had a MSRP of $49,988, and a fully loaded ES 300h could have a MSRP of over $52,000. I think that what happened as Lexus moved into the Generation 6 ES is that, with prices steadily creeping up, Lexus wanted to maintain the opportunity to buy an ES with a MSRP in that low $40,000 range, and, to do so, they went back to offering a non-leather (NuLuxe) version of the car.

SW17LS

Correct, but not through most of its history. I believe 05 was the first year of standard leather. It was optional in my 03 Gen 4 ES.

To be fair a loaded $50k ES today has way more equipment and features than a loaded $40k ES 10+ years ago. I too had one from that era, and while it was well equipped a loaded UL 17 ES is way, way better equipped.

lesz

That is correct. Still, a base 2006, including standard leather, had a MSRP right around $36,000. At that time, if you had an ES with absolutely every available factory option, the MSRP would have been around $44,000. Mine had every available factory option except for the ML sound, and its MSRP was around $42,000.

Today, a base ES with NuLuxe has a MSRP that is pushing $40,000. And, while it is true that a 2017 ES has other things, especially safety features, that the 2006 ES didn't have, I'm confident in guessing that it was important to the marketing strategy of Lexus for the ES to maintain the option to buy an ES for under $40,000 (even though I doubt that there are many under $40,000 ES vehicles that ever hit a dealer's showroom).

SW17LS

To put that into perspective my basically loaded 2003 ES300 was $39,900. As time goes forward cars get more expensive.

I think you're right though that they've been trying to keep the ES available at a certain cost, which is what led to a lot of the cost cutting we saw with the 13 model.

TechNut

Just to comment on Lexus' strategy, I'm pretty sure our 2004 RX did not come standard with leather. Now I never saw a single one that didn't have an option package that included leather, but technically it wasn't standard. I'm not entirely sure what that says about Lexus' strategy but I'm guessing they were trying to maintain a budget option, although I think it would have required a special order as the dealers probably wouldn't typically order any optioned that way?

uncle

I think the vinyl is superior to leather in most ways. My experience has been, both on Lexus', other Japanese cars, European cars, and English cars is that the leather, although highly touted and expensive, does not hold up well. In particular, my comments are:
Japanese cars: The hides are trimmed too thin. This is evident to the touch, and most specifically on the bolsters. With not much additional expense, this could be improved upon.
English cars: The finish used, (post Connolly era) does not wear well, and because of this, you are down to the hides quickly. In addition, stitching issues are a problem.
BMW: Stitching and bolster wear, once again due to thin hides.
MB, The vinyl holds up very well, and because of this, leather is secondary in their mind.

I have the vinyl on my ES, and chose it on purpose. It holds up very well, cleans easily and shows no wear. I would buy it again.

That said I can afford to buy a new car, and get what I wanted. If I bought used cars, of course I would not have that luxury, and would have to settle for what was available.

jollick

I had a 2006 RX with standard leather and traded it in 2010, it was a daily driver with no leather issues, looked good as new when traded it in with 60,000 miles on it.

My 2013 ES300h UL has the semi-aniline leather, again a daily driver, and no show of wear. I do not clean/treat them on a regular basis either. They just hold up. I have been driving Lexus vehicles since 1998 and have not had any issues with their leather.

Just my 2 cents.

lesz

I agree 100%. I've now had 4 Lexus vehicles with leather, 3 with standard leather and one with semi-aniline leather. I've had no issues whatever with how the leather has held up, and that includes the leather on my 2005 GX, which I've now had for 13 years.

I, too, do nothing special to "treat" the leather. About the only maintenance that I do is, when needed, to wipe the seats down with a slightly damp cloth.

TechNut

I don't do anything to my leather seats either. My 2013 RX had some minor stretch marks when we traded it in. Nothing major and I wasn't complaining, but definitely not the same condition as when it was new. My 2004 RX also showed some minor stretch marks when we traded it in for the 2013 - but again nothing major after 9 years.

Leather is animal hide. It is imperfect in nature so we can't expect it to be any different in a car seat.

Having had both, I honestly don't have a big preference. There a part of me that "feels" like leather should be better. After all, it's more expensive so that's expected to be better right? I would want to see how NuLuxe holds up at 8 years and at least 60k miles before I am convinced one way or the other. I believe the threshold question was if there are any issues with NuLuxe and I have not seen any yet on my NuLuxe seats. My experience is similar to others that have suggested NuLuxe appears to hold up just as well or better than leather. This is with only two years of NuLuxe experience, so I also feel I need more time/mileage before I reach any conclusions.

Nohnv

I have the semi aniline leather and it feels amazing and has held up well since 2014. The only thing that frustrates me is the seats are perforated. Which looks nice but crumbs and large dust ***** can get in there. Luckily they also vacuum out pretty easy.

Olasek

Some people on the IS forum reported cracking/holes of NuLuxe in their cars - after barely 20,000 miles. You can easily find those threads with pictures. When I was buying my 2016 IS 350 just recently I examined NuLuxe up close and decided it was too "thin" to my taste, even brittle, just did not feel right. I had to order luxury packaged IS since no other IS would have leather - there was not a single such IS on a dealer lot anywhere in CA and there were only a handful across the whole US.
Anyway - love the leather in my IS though had to wait for the car full 3 months. I love its smell, touch and have no problem when it starts aging - I actually welcome some patina effect on leather.

BTW, would anyone know if my leather is semi-aniline or not? The car specs/manual just says leather.

lesz

I'm quite confident in guessing that the leather on the IS is the standard leather and not the semi-aniline leather. If it was the semi-aniline, I'm sure that Lexus would advertise it as such.

Besides my ES, I've had a GX, but I've been thinking that I really don't need the size of the GX, and I've been considering trading it for a smaller and more fuel efficient SUV or cross-over AWD vehicle. One possibility that I've thought about is the NX, and what I'm seeing is the same thing that you mention for the IS. The only way to get leather on the NX is with the luxury package, but it is hard to find an NX luxury package vehicle in the inventories of the dealers. Almost of the NX that the dealers have are Premium package vehicles with the NuLuxe.

I suspect that the reason why there are so few Luxury Package NX available is that a Luxury Package NX ends up with a MSRP that approaches $50,000, which moves it toward the range of an UL Package ES, and I'm guessing that that kind of price tag is more than many/most are willing to pay for a vehicle that has much in common with a Rav4. I'm not sure that I want to pay that much for an NX, but, while I have an interest in a vehicle that is smaller than my GX, I'm not sure that I want to step down from the luxury feeling that the GX has given me, and, while I could probably live with the NuLuxe, a good number of "luxury" features are only available with Luxury Package with leather seats (and the almost $50,000 price tag).

TechNut

Lesz, I think you are right on target with your remarks about the NX configuration. Our NX had a sticker just north of 49k and the luxury package was required to get leather. As I recall, the luxury package added about $4800 to the price and it included leather and oddly, rain sensing wipers. Even if the dealer had one configured that way (and they didn't) I don't think it would have been worth that extra $$ to me. I sure miss the rain sensing wipers though.

If you like the luxury amenities of the GX or even your UL ES, you may not be happy with the NX. We love the size and it's a nice vehicle, but a clear step down from our ES or previous RX. It is considerably noisier and doesn't ride as nice as the ES or the former RX. In my opinion, the interior vibe is younger and "hipper" and less luxury oriented. It probably shares more with its Toyota sibling than any other Lexus product we have ever owned. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless you are expecting the typical Lexus quiet luxury. If not for my wife's need of a shorter ingress/egress, I would have never stepped down from the RX. I guess what I'm saying is that it's a clear step down and not just in size. It's always hard to step down...

lesz

Thanks much for sharing your thoughts on the NX. With the closest Lexus dealer being 100 miles from me, I've never even sat in an NX. So, hearing the thoughts of someone who owns one is valuable input for me. I've thought about an RX, but the RX is probably still a bigger vehicle than I need, and, unless I opted for the hybrid version, the fuel economy still wouldn't be where I'd like it to be. Also, when I have had RX loaners, I really haven't liked the ride quality of the vehicle, and a loaded RX would come with a MSRP of about $10,000 more than an NX.

Even if I decided that I'd like to own an NX, I'm not sure about how hard it would be to find one equipped the way that I'd like it to be. Just this morning, I checked the websites of 3 Lexus dealers. I found one Luxury Package NX, and that one was at the largest Lexus dealer in the Midwest, which is 150 miles from me.

After having had the full suite of safety features, including pre-collision system, on my 2017 ES, I'm not sure that I'd buy another vehicle without all of those features, and the only NX vehicles that I've seen with all of them are the Luxury package vehicles with a MSRP north of $48,000. From what I've read on the NX board here, there should be some pretty good discounting available on the NX, but, even with a healthy discount, a Luxury Package NX would still have a hefty price tag.

I've really come to being a loyal Lexus owner, but it may be the case that I need to look outside of Lexus to find the small SUV that best meets my needs.