LexBob2

I wish I was in my mid 60's.

heidihidin

back to this though
is a base es with no screen and no options a "stupid" purchase because then it is just a camry/avalon?
i personally value japan assembly and i have gen 1 highlander assembled in japan and love it but opinions are split on whether japan assembly is worth anything
if not for that, am i just buying an avalon with an L badge?

Fillykonk

For the most part I agree with you about Japanese assembly. I was planning on buying my 2014 for that very reason even though I got an exceptional deal on the 2017 I was looking at when my lease was up. However after careful scrutiny I eventually spang for the 2017 and I must say after 4 months of ownership that I am unable to tell no difference in quality between the two. The 17 is just as rattle-free as the 14. Lexus seemed to get this right when making the transition between the two countries. That being said, I would keep looking beyond the "base" ES you are considering and try to find one with a little more extensive equipment. Not only will you be happier with it in the long run but it will add to the resale value down the road.

bc6152

Resale value is a consideration and very few buyers IMO would be interested in obtaining a Lexus with no options. Perhaps the original buyer simply wished to say that he/she owned a Lexus. I believe that a luxury car at the level of a Lexus Executive Sedan should be accordingly appointed with the various safety and convenience options. I found out the hard way that sometimes 6 months after you purchase a car you say "Gee, I wished I had gotten the" (whatever option you were considering but didn't get)
Otherwise go buy a used Camry or Honda Accord with options. Both great cars and a lot less money...

lesz

In the last 30+ years, I've owned 14 vehicles built by Japanese manufacturers. About half of those vehicles were built in Japan and about half were built in the US. My experience had consistently been that, while both the Japanese-built and US-built vehicles were excellent in terms of fits and finishes, build quality, and absence of defects, the Japanese-built vehicles were just a bit better.

But my US-built 2017 ES has changed my thinking. My previously owned 2013 ES was good, but it was not close to perfect with regard to fits and finishes. My 2017 ES, on the other hand, is about as close to perfect as a car could be. Body panels are perfectly aligned, and gaps between panels are as uniform as can be. Further, the fit of interior panels is also virtually perfect, and there is not a hint of a squeak or rattle anywhere on the car.

Thus, in the future, I will not have any hesitation about buying a US-built Lexus vehicle.

lesz

I agree 100%.

Buyers of used Lexus vehicles typically expect an array of luxury features. There is a used car manager from a Lexus dealership who occasionally posts here, and he has said that, when he gets an ES (or other Lexus model) with navigation and other desirable options on his lot, he can be confident that it will sell quickly and for a price close to what the dealer will be asking. On the other hand, he has said that, when he gets a less desirably equipped vehicle on his lot, he knows that it is likely to sit there for a long time and that he probably will eventually have to lower the price significantly or sell the car at auction. Thus, his trade-in offers for base models are going to be quite low.

If it was me, I would choose to buy a well-equipped Camry or Avalon over a base ES. Not only would I be getting a much more nicely equipped car, but I would likely be able to buy that better equipped Camry or Avalon for less than what I would pay for the base ES, and the well-equipped Camry or Avalon will likely hold its re-sale value better than will the base ES.

heidihidin

this is probably totally wrong but the Kentucky built toyotas left a sour taste in my mouth when our 02 v6 xle camry purchased brand new and maintained meticulously started literally falling apart at 150k miles. Perhaps it was just pure bad luck but my 02 highlander built in japan is still fairly trouble free at 230k miles on the clock...
that is why i am leaning toward the ES.
so now i am looking at 2 different lexi
a 13 cpo with 63k miles with nav and a 14 used with 47.5k miles no nav with about 5 month 2500 miles warranty left
which one should i go with?

lesz

Note that the Lexus CPO warranty covers up to 100,000 total miles. That means that the 2013 ES that you are looking at only has 37,000 miles left before the CPO warranty would no longer be valid. Also note that that car is only 27,000 miles away from the 90,000 recommended service, and the 90,000 mile service is one of the more expensive service intervals. Also, if you are considering that car, check the CPO inspection checklist for the tires and brakes. With 63,000 miles on the odometer, the car could well be somewhat through its second set of tires and close to needing new brake pads. The minimum CPO requirements only call for a car to have about 1/3 of its useful tire and brake pad life left, and that could mean significant expense within a year of buying the car.

It it was me, neither of those two cars would have much interest. To me, the ideal car would be a 2014 ES with the Luxury package and navigation and with somewhere around 35,000-40,000 miles on the odometer. Such a car might cost a bit more, but it would provide more utility and more time before there would be significant out-of-pocket costs for maintenance.

DanZ

Heidihidin: I seem to recall that you were not concerned with the resale value of the car in one of your earlier posts. If that is the case and you/your parents do not need the Navigation option, then 2014 Base ES is a better value. My experience with Japanese built Corolla and Kentucky built Corolla is similar to yours and I would heavily prefer the Japanese assembly. I think 2015 ES 350 were Japan-assembled until about August 2015 build date. While I have no data on the comparison of Japan-assembled vs Kentucky-assembled ES, I would lean towards the former. My 2015 was built in Japan with a November 2014 build date and is a base ES (but the back camera became standard that year and the Siri-hands free was added). When I was looking for a used car, those were the only two options I desired and valued. All other options did not appeal to me. I do not think, a Camry or Avalon will provide the ride quality of a ES- you can easily experience this with a test drive. For Navigation, I simply use a $2 vent holder to hold my cell phone and interact with it using Siri hands free. In my opinion, tires and brakes are not a critical issue in choosing a used car (they are easy to manage- either with the dealer as part of the sale or yourself as a separate service).

Poppa

HaHa... I hear you MIke, but the difference between you and me is I am approaching my "mid" 60's... will be 63 in January...
also, I want to say ( and this is just my personal opinion ) that a 5500.00 dollar front end collision repair bill does not necessarily mean there is extensive damage.. I know in my case I had a front end collision just about a year ago and there was 4900.00 worth of damage.. but there was no "metal" damage what so ever, it was all plastic / bumper / grill etc... now there was a 1600 dollar headlight assembly but no fender / hood damage what so ever. In my case the shop used OEM parts which drove the price up a bit I'm sure. and of course we all know that labor rates at body shops "aint cheap".

lesz

But there is a notable and significant difference between your $4900 repair bill and the $5500 repair bill on the car that the OP was looking at.

In your case, a significant portion of the $4900 bill was the result of the $1600 headlight needing to be replaced. In the case of the car that the OP was looking at, a big portion of the $5500 repair bill appears to be the result of repairing damage that extended well behind the bumper. On that car, it looks like there was sheet metal repair or replacement and paint work on the fenders and possibly even the hood or doors. If the damage had been contained to only the bumper area, the paint work on the bumper would have been done with the bumper removed from the car, and there would have been no need to do any masking of the engine and the door jambs. The fact that masking the engine and door jambs was needed indicates that there was much more extensive sheet metal damage.

I would not feel uncomfortable about owning a car with a bumper (and related items) that had been replaced or repaired. On the other hand, when the sheet metal damage starts to extend into the fenders and, possibly, the doors or hood, I would wonder about whether there might have also been any structural damage and whether such damage had been properly repaired.

BradTank

No, I don't think so. Even without the extra options, the ES is simply a better vehicle. I compared a similar year Avalon back to back and the ES was heads and shoulders better, even without the gadgets and even though its the same platform and engine. Better ride, quieter, more upscale materials, better fit and finish, etc. Avalon felt cheap like a rental car.

I don't think many people care about navigation, they will care though about lack of a backup camera, especially now that it's the law all new cars have to have them. Its hard to go back. But if you are looking at similar vintage Toyotas that lack that option as well, its probably gong to be a push in terms of resale. But if the deal is right, I would go for it over something like a similar Camry or Avalon.

DanZ

One more point: the assembly difference between Japan-built and Kentucky-built ES in terms of reliability will not be known until about 2025 and thereafter, which will be 10 years of them being on the road. Any conclusion before that time period has to be based on past experiences. Hard data will start coming in after 2025 and we shall know the fate.

heidihidin

And how did you attach it to the seat?
wedged between back and headrest?
I tried thus with a similar one but it was alwasys lose and dangling when not pressed against