Dave Mac

I completely agree and as stated my Avalon experience was in perhaps a rental version - no blind spot monitoring, cross traffic, memory seats, moon roof (don't care much about this one but kind of unusual for an XLE I thought), and kind of a strange door lock/unlock setup although maybe the manual would have explained how to use that better.

Dave Mac

Fillykonk

I think the dealer experience regarding Toyota vs. Lexus should be included in the mix. Not only is the ES a better quality car but the DE is also better. On our 2nd ES now, the Lexus dealer is the only dealer in 33 years of marriage that my wife actually doesn't mind going to! If the OP is hapy with the lesser equipment of the base ES I say go for it. If at the same time the OP can wait, I got my 2017 (45k+ MSRP) at model year-end for 36k with incentives and rebates.

lesz

I'm sure that the "dealer experience" at both Lexus and Toyota dealers can vary quite a bit from one dealer to another.

I get all of my non-warranty Lexus service done at the local Toyota dealer, and it has been the case that the Toyota dealer experience has been, in some ways, as good as the Lexus dealer experience and, in other ways, better than the Lexus dealer experience.

My Toyota dealer has a waiting area that is every bit as nice as the waiting area of the Lexus dealer, with big screen TVs, internet access, premium coffee, premium snacks, comfortable seating, etc. And the big bonus is that the Toyota dealer does the same service and repairs as the Lexus dealer for prices that are generally 40-50% of the prices charged by the Lexus dealer. Further, the Toyota dealer has never made any attempts to convince me to buy unneeded service. I can't say the same thing for the Lexus dealer. The only area in which the Lexus dealer has a plus is that, there, I will get a ES or RX loaner. At the Toyota dealer, I will get an Avalon or Camry loaner, but, to me, that is no big deal.

Thus, for me, it is an easy choice to make the 30 mile trip to the Toyota dealer and not the 100 mile trip to the Lexus dealer.

FatherTo1

I would have to agree based on similar experience. The Lexus dealership was clearly a more inviting space 20 years ago but our local Toyota dealership has been excellent these past 10 years for services on the ES that I couldn't DIY. Our nearby Toyota dealership's waiting area is twice the size of the Lexus dealership's and every bit as comfortable to spend time at. There is even a little kid's play area at the Toyota dealership that the Lexus counterpart lacks. The Toyota dealership's shuttle service also picks me up from home. The only reason I stopped going to the Toyota dealership is because a Toyota/Lexus Master Technician, with 20 years experience, decided to open up his own shop nearby. Otherwise I would still be going to Toyota for major services.

Fillykonk

[QUOTE=lesz;10161208]I'm sure that the "dealer experience" at both Lexus and Toyota dealers can vary quite a bit from one dealer to another.

I get all of my non-warranty Lexus service done at the local Toyota dealer, and it has been the case that the Toyota dealer experience has been, in some ways, as good as the Lexus dealer experience and, in other ways, better than the Lexus dealer experience.

My Toyota dealer has a waiting area that is every bit as nice as the waiting area of the Lexus dealer, with big screen TVs, internet access, premium coffee, premium snacks, comfortable seating, etc. And the big bonus is that the Toyota dealer does the same service and repairs as the Lexus dealer for prices that are generally 40-50% of the prices charged by the Lexus dealer. Further, the Toyota dealer has never made any attempts to convince me to buy unneeded service. I can't say the same thing for the Lexus dealer. The only area in which the Lexus dealer has a plus is that, there, I will get a ES or RX loaner. At the Toyota dealer, I will get an Avalon or Camry loaner, but, to me, that is no big deal.

Thus, for me, it is an easy choice to make the 30 mile trip to the Toyota dealer and not the 100 mile trip to the Lexus dealer.

As you said it probably depends on the dealer. While living in Key West we had a local Toyota dealer who was absolutely horrible. Now that we have retired to NC our living situation is rural so our distance to Toyota/Lexus dealerships is similar. I guess I'll find out how good the Lexus service people are when I got for the 1 year checkup. My purchase experience with them (and their service department at the time) went very well.

RAHBob

debtfree1

Dave Mac

Bi led is a $500+

I just purchased a 2018 ES 350 after and accident and did not have the luxury of waiting for a car with the Bi Led option. Both my wife and I notice the difference and hope we are able to get them again in the future. Most cars we found had the $500 panoramic roof but not the $500 Bi Led headlights - I wish it had been reversed. The other option we miss is the power opening trunk. Otherwise we really like the car with the Premium Package and I'm sure you will too.

Dave Mac

Dave Mac

And regarding the Avalon XLE that you were considering, we had a 2018 model as a rental for about 2 weeks while dealing with insurance companies and noticed more differences than I expected. You made the right choice.

Dave Mac

debtfree1

Dave Mac

Yes, I think we are going to like the Premium Package and had planned to get Nuluxe on our next car anyway. I have always had the Luxury Package with leather and in our 2016 it simply wasn't holding up well after just 20K miles. I was surprised at how many Lexus sales people told me Nuluxe was leather.

And yes, I believe the bi led headlights are worth $500 but I just couldn't find them except on one car that was almost $5K more. And that car also had the power opening trunk I like - I just don't like it that much.

Dave Mac

debtfree1

Dave Mac

The power trunk opener is available on a special order Premium Package car but maybe with 3 month wait. I too, am not usually flexible on things I want or don't want on a car and have always special ordered my Lexus in September for December delivery but this time I only had 7 days after my car was declared a total loss and they had some real good lease deals during the March sale.

Yes, I got the woodgrain steering wheel and everything else I wanted as well as the color on the car. Interesting to my salesman, this was the first time in 25 years I didn't have some issue with the wheels on the car with the premium package. And it had the Michelin tires (17 inch) that I always demand.



Dav

Dave Mac

With a special order car you can delete all of the Port-Installed-Options that total about $1,000 on some cars although I sometimes have to do this multiple times as the car is processed. My new car has the pano roof which I probably wouldn't have ordered but am starting to like a bit and the port-installed trunk lip spoiler which I also would not have ordered.

All of the premium package cars I saw had a $500 discount for the package - which I guess offset the cost of the pano roof.

Dave Mac

SW17LS

Sorry to hear about your wreck Dave. Glad you're okay.

I would recommend that you splurge upfront and get any equipment you think you may want. I bought a very low package LS in 2015, and ultimately was disappointed in its lack of certain features and packages. I traded it on my 2017 which is much higher package and I'm MUCH happier, but overall I would have been better off had I just sprung for the 2015 optioned the way my 2017 is. Just food for thought.

Wanted to comment on dealers. In my 20 years of Lexus ownership, as well as ownership of many other brand vehicles I have found that Lexus service offers a veneer of high quality that is easily pushed through to find very ordinary support, even bordering on poor when you really have an issue. When going in for oil changes, etc the experience is great, albeit very expensive. However, when you have an issue that really requires the dealer to stand behind you or Lexus as a company to step up and come through for you as the customer you'll be let down. Examples of that are dotted all over the forum if you look. I have found even lowly Chrysler far more accommodating when it comes to taking the time to diagnose evasive issues like rattles, noises, broken interior components etc. Lexus is very rigid and dismissive of such concerns and dealers are very quick to say "your vehicle is operating as designed" in order to dismiss you.

Then theres surprises like they don't use the high quality Toyota motor oil for their $200 oil changes, they use off brand drum oil despite selling the TGMO when you buy it at the parts counter. I've had experiences where the dealer has damaged my car and despite being a customer of that very dealer for 15 years and having bought 4 cars from them and always having my cars serviced there I had to cause a scene in the waiting room to get the service manager to step up and address the issue.

I've gotten to the point where I only use the dealer for the first two free services and for warranty work, and that I avoid like the plague. I use my independent mechanic for everything else at much lower cost and higher quality work. So, for me the dealer doesn't mean much sadly.