Base model ES 350 not attractive?
04-06-18 | 06:29 AM
#31
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,931
Likes: 1,306
From: SE PA
Sorry to hear about your wreck Dave. Glad you're okay.
I would recommend that you splurge upfront and get any equipment you think you may want. I bought a very low package LS in 2015, and ultimately was disappointed in its lack of certain features and packages. I traded it on my 2017 which is much higher package and I'm MUCH happier, but overall I would have been better off had I just sprung for the 2015 optioned the way my 2017 is. Just food for thought.
Wanted to comment on dealers. In my 20 years of Lexus ownership, as well as ownership of many other brand vehicles I have found that Lexus service offers a veneer of high quality that is easily pushed through to find very ordinary support, even bordering on poor when you really have an issue. When going in for oil changes, etc the experience is great, albeit very expensive. However, when you have an issue that really requires the dealer to stand behind you or Lexus as a company to step up and come through for you as the customer you'll be let down. Examples of that are dotted all over the forum if you look. I have found even lowly Chrysler far more accommodating when it comes to taking the time to diagnose evasive issues like rattles, noises, broken interior components etc. Lexus is very rigid and dismissive of such concerns and dealers are very quick to say "your vehicle is operating as designed" in order to dismiss you.
Then theres surprises like they don't use the high quality Toyota motor oil for their $200 oil changes, they use off brand drum oil despite selling the TGMO when you buy it at the parts counter. I've had experiences where the dealer has damaged my car and despite being a customer of that very dealer for 15 years and having bought 4 cars from them and always having my cars serviced there I had to cause a scene in the waiting room to get the service manager to step up and address the issue.
I've gotten to the point where I only use the dealer for the first two free services and for warranty work, and that I avoid like the plague. I use my independent mechanic for everything else at much lower cost and higher quality work. So, for me the dealer doesn't mean much sadly.
I would recommend that you splurge upfront and get any equipment you think you may want. I bought a very low package LS in 2015, and ultimately was disappointed in its lack of certain features and packages. I traded it on my 2017 which is much higher package and I'm MUCH happier, but overall I would have been better off had I just sprung for the 2015 optioned the way my 2017 is. Just food for thought.
Wanted to comment on dealers. In my 20 years of Lexus ownership, as well as ownership of many other brand vehicles I have found that Lexus service offers a veneer of high quality that is easily pushed through to find very ordinary support, even bordering on poor when you really have an issue. When going in for oil changes, etc the experience is great, albeit very expensive. However, when you have an issue that really requires the dealer to stand behind you or Lexus as a company to step up and come through for you as the customer you'll be let down. Examples of that are dotted all over the forum if you look. I have found even lowly Chrysler far more accommodating when it comes to taking the time to diagnose evasive issues like rattles, noises, broken interior components etc. Lexus is very rigid and dismissive of such concerns and dealers are very quick to say "your vehicle is operating as designed" in order to dismiss you.
Then theres surprises like they don't use the high quality Toyota motor oil for their $200 oil changes, they use off brand drum oil despite selling the TGMO when you buy it at the parts counter. I've had experiences where the dealer has damaged my car and despite being a customer of that very dealer for 15 years and having bought 4 cars from them and always having my cars serviced there I had to cause a scene in the waiting room to get the service manager to step up and address the issue.
I've gotten to the point where I only use the dealer for the first two free services and for warranty work, and that I avoid like the plague. I use my independent mechanic for everything else at much lower cost and higher quality work. So, for me the dealer doesn't mean much sadly.
04-06-18 | 06:47 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,073
Likes: 2,785
From: Maryland
Yep, I love the physical building of the dealer, love the convenience of the loaners, etc. I would even pay too much for those perks if I didn't truly feel like my car wasn't getting treated as well as it was at my independent shop. Its one thing to pay more for the same service packaged better, but its another thing to pay more for lower quality service packaged better.
04-07-18 | 12:18 AM
#33
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 69
Likes: 3
From: Pennsylvania
Seems like my discussion went a different direction. Any other folks driving base model es 350’s? The base model Es I drove seemed pretty well equipped. I have a hard time believing that a base model Es 350 would be hard to sell.
04-07-18 | 12:21 AM
#34
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 69
Likes: 3
From: Pennsylvania
04-07-18 | 12:28 AM
#35
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 392
Likes: 40
From: New Jersey
No point in getting a higher trim model if you don't need the added perks. As for resale, obviously the more packages you have added onto the car the more it will be worth. Target audience is important to for when it's time to resell. If the person is just looking for a commuter car or something they won't need the extras. But then again they might be looking at camry's instead of an es. Most people looking at buying an older luxury brand car want the standard features like nav and heated seats etc.
04-07-18 | 08:54 AM
#38
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: AZ
New member; first time poster. My wife and I just tested the Avalon Limited and ES 350 back-to-back. I was surprised at how close the Avalon came to the ES 350 in ride quality. The ES 350 was on 17" Michelins; the Limited was on 18" Michelins. Even the trim in the Avalon Limited is nice, if not to the standard of the ES 350.
We are ordering an ES 350 because the Avalon seats are too stiff for my back (chronic pain patient, here), and my wife could not see over the hood, even with the seat elevated to where her knees were jammed into the dash. And I do not believe that the ToyotaNation forum "add foam to it" solution would help me -- the problem appears to be that the structure of the seat back is not comfortable for me.
This was a tough decision because I am the original owner of a 1996 Toyota Avalon, and would probably not give it to my son yet except that I'm truly worried about waiting for the 2019 Avalon/ES 350 offerings. I tested the 2018 Camry, and it feels much lower and has almost no headroom with a pano roof (and I'm 5 7" on a good day). Of course, I'm 60 years old, so that may have something to do with my viewpoint.
At any rate, for the right driver, the 2018 Avalon Limited is a steal -- dealers in Arizona are offering it at about $33,000.
We are ordering an ES 350 because the Avalon seats are too stiff for my back (chronic pain patient, here), and my wife could not see over the hood, even with the seat elevated to where her knees were jammed into the dash. And I do not believe that the ToyotaNation forum "add foam to it" solution would help me -- the problem appears to be that the structure of the seat back is not comfortable for me.
This was a tough decision because I am the original owner of a 1996 Toyota Avalon, and would probably not give it to my son yet except that I'm truly worried about waiting for the 2019 Avalon/ES 350 offerings. I tested the 2018 Camry, and it feels much lower and has almost no headroom with a pano roof (and I'm 5 7" on a good day). Of course, I'm 60 years old, so that may have something to do with my viewpoint.
At any rate, for the right driver, the 2018 Avalon Limited is a steal -- dealers in Arizona are offering it at about $33,000.
04-07-18 | 10:59 AM
#39
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,019
From: Illinois
I thought I'd add a bit to the discussion earlier in the thread about whether or not to use the Lexus dealer for maintenance and repairs.
I just had an interesting experience that is an example of why I choose not to use the Lexus dealer's service department for anything other than warranty issues.
A couple of days ago, when I was driving my GX, I began to hear a loud and intermittent noise coming from somewhere under the vehicle. At first, I thought it was coming from somewhere around the wheels, but, when I called and talked with the service manager at the Toyota dealer where I have service on my Lexus vehicles done and after describing what I was hearing, he said that the source of the sound was likely a loose heat shield for the exhaust system.
When I brought the vehicle in to the Toyota dealer this morning, they put it up on the rack and confirmed that the problem was, in fact, with the heat shield. The service manager said that the loose heat shield could be repaired or replaced, but he said that doing so would require dropping the entire exhaust system, and because of the age of the vehicle, he said that dropping the exhaust system would be likely to cause something else in the exhaust system to break, and that would likely result in a very expensive repair. So, after he assured me that the heat shield was not really necessary, he suggested just removing the heat shield, which would not require uninstalling the entire exhaust system. After they removed the heat shield (which solved the problem), the service manager told me that there would be no charge for doing so.
I'm quite confident in guessing that, had I taken the GX to the Lexus dealer, they would have told me that the heat shield needed to be replaced, and, regardless of whether they were able to drop the exhaust system without doing any further damage to it, I'm sure that, at a minimum, I would have have left the dealer with a repair bill of at least a couple of hundred dollars and, depending on whether any further damage was done to the exhaust system, the bill could have been even substantially higher.
This was just one of multiple experiences that I've had where the Toyota dealer either did a repair for a fraction of what it would have cost at the Lexus dealer or when they have done a minor repair and have charged me nothing. My experience with the Lexus dealer, on the other hand, has been that they seem to operate on the principle that, if people are willing to pay a premium price to buy a Lexus, they will also be willing to pay outrageous prices for maintenance and repairs.
I just had an interesting experience that is an example of why I choose not to use the Lexus dealer's service department for anything other than warranty issues.
A couple of days ago, when I was driving my GX, I began to hear a loud and intermittent noise coming from somewhere under the vehicle. At first, I thought it was coming from somewhere around the wheels, but, when I called and talked with the service manager at the Toyota dealer where I have service on my Lexus vehicles done and after describing what I was hearing, he said that the source of the sound was likely a loose heat shield for the exhaust system.
When I brought the vehicle in to the Toyota dealer this morning, they put it up on the rack and confirmed that the problem was, in fact, with the heat shield. The service manager said that the loose heat shield could be repaired or replaced, but he said that doing so would require dropping the entire exhaust system, and because of the age of the vehicle, he said that dropping the exhaust system would be likely to cause something else in the exhaust system to break, and that would likely result in a very expensive repair. So, after he assured me that the heat shield was not really necessary, he suggested just removing the heat shield, which would not require uninstalling the entire exhaust system. After they removed the heat shield (which solved the problem), the service manager told me that there would be no charge for doing so.
I'm quite confident in guessing that, had I taken the GX to the Lexus dealer, they would have told me that the heat shield needed to be replaced, and, regardless of whether they were able to drop the exhaust system without doing any further damage to it, I'm sure that, at a minimum, I would have have left the dealer with a repair bill of at least a couple of hundred dollars and, depending on whether any further damage was done to the exhaust system, the bill could have been even substantially higher.
This was just one of multiple experiences that I've had where the Toyota dealer either did a repair for a fraction of what it would have cost at the Lexus dealer or when they have done a minor repair and have charged me nothing. My experience with the Lexus dealer, on the other hand, has been that they seem to operate on the principle that, if people are willing to pay a premium price to buy a Lexus, they will also be willing to pay outrageous prices for maintenance and repairs.
04-07-18 | 11:11 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,073
Likes: 2,785
From: Maryland
Correct, and they have a "replace first" mentality where they just keep replacing things until the issue is solved. Thats fine when Lexus IS paying, but if you're paying that will break the bank.
04-07-18 | 12:04 PM
#41
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,931
Likes: 1,306
From: SE PA
I thought I'd add a bit to the discussion earlier in the thread about whether or not to use the Lexus dealer for maintenance and repairs.
I just had an interesting experience that is an example of why I choose not to use the Lexus dealer's service department for anything other than warranty issues.
A couple of days ago, when I was driving my GX, I began to hear a loud and intermittent noise coming from somewhere under the vehicle. At first, I thought it was coming from somewhere around the wheels, but, when I called and talked with the service manager at the Toyota dealer where I have service on my Lexus vehicles done and after describing what I was hearing, he said that the source of the sound was likely a loose heat shield for the exhaust system.
When I brought the vehicle in to the Toyota dealer this morning, they put it up on the rack and confirmed that the problem was, in fact, with the heat shield. The service manager said that the loose heat shield could be repaired or replaced, but he said that doing so would require dropping the entire exhaust system, and because of the age of the vehicle, he said that dropping the exhaust system would be likely to cause something else in the exhaust system to break, and that would likely result in a very expensive repair. So, after he assured me that the heat shield was not really necessary, he suggested just removing the heat shield, which would not require uninstalling the entire exhaust system. After they removed the heat shield (which solved the problem), the service manager told me that there would be no charge for doing so.
I'm quite confident in guessing that, had I taken the GX to the Lexus dealer, they would have told me that the heat shield needed to be replaced, and, regardless of whether they were able to drop the exhaust system without doing any further damage to it, I'm sure that, at a minimum, I would have have left the dealer with a repair bill of at least a couple of hundred dollars and, depending on whether any further damage was done to the exhaust system, the bill could have been even substantially higher.
This was just one of multiple experiences that I've had where the Toyota dealer either did a repair for a fraction of what it would have cost at the Lexus dealer or when they have done a minor repair and have charged me nothing. My experience with the Lexus dealer, on the other hand, has been that they seem to operate on the principle that, if people are willing to pay a premium price to buy a Lexus, they will also be willing to pay outrageous prices for maintenance and repairs.
I just had an interesting experience that is an example of why I choose not to use the Lexus dealer's service department for anything other than warranty issues.
A couple of days ago, when I was driving my GX, I began to hear a loud and intermittent noise coming from somewhere under the vehicle. At first, I thought it was coming from somewhere around the wheels, but, when I called and talked with the service manager at the Toyota dealer where I have service on my Lexus vehicles done and after describing what I was hearing, he said that the source of the sound was likely a loose heat shield for the exhaust system.
When I brought the vehicle in to the Toyota dealer this morning, they put it up on the rack and confirmed that the problem was, in fact, with the heat shield. The service manager said that the loose heat shield could be repaired or replaced, but he said that doing so would require dropping the entire exhaust system, and because of the age of the vehicle, he said that dropping the exhaust system would be likely to cause something else in the exhaust system to break, and that would likely result in a very expensive repair. So, after he assured me that the heat shield was not really necessary, he suggested just removing the heat shield, which would not require uninstalling the entire exhaust system. After they removed the heat shield (which solved the problem), the service manager told me that there would be no charge for doing so.
I'm quite confident in guessing that, had I taken the GX to the Lexus dealer, they would have told me that the heat shield needed to be replaced, and, regardless of whether they were able to drop the exhaust system without doing any further damage to it, I'm sure that, at a minimum, I would have have left the dealer with a repair bill of at least a couple of hundred dollars and, depending on whether any further damage was done to the exhaust system, the bill could have been even substantially higher.
This was just one of multiple experiences that I've had where the Toyota dealer either did a repair for a fraction of what it would have cost at the Lexus dealer or when they have done a minor repair and have charged me nothing. My experience with the Lexus dealer, on the other hand, has been that they seem to operate on the principle that, if people are willing to pay a premium price to buy a Lexus, they will also be willing to pay outrageous prices for maintenance and repairs.
04-07-18 | 05:52 PM
#42
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Tx
DealAlert1 - thanks for starting this thread and others as well for their useful comments. I am also planning to replace a 11 year Honda with ES and based on the feedback/pricing and usefulness planning to get premium pkg. DealAlert if you have already purchased can you let me know any strategies or links to follow to get good price on a purchase.
Also I am new to the forum and found this site useful for discussions.
thanks.
Also I am new to the forum and found this site useful for discussions.
thanks.
04-08-18 | 11:41 PM
#43
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 319
Likes: 30
From: Nevada
What about the driving experience of the 2018 Camry XLE V6 compared to the base model 2018 ES350 V6? I personally prefer new Camry's punchier yet quieter V6 performance during gentle to moderate acceleration. Although the road noise level of the 2018 Camry is about the same or slightly worse than the ES350, the Camry's suspension soaks up small road imperfections slightly better for a slightly calmer less fatiguing long distance driving experience. The wide stance and lower center of gravity of the 2018 Camry helps make it feel like an especially agile and almost Corolla size car whereas the ES350 feels larger, less agile more dated by comparison. Given the substantial improvements Toyota has made to the ride comfort and agility of the all new 2018 Camry, I am confident the 2019 ES350 will be a compelling improvement to the 2018 ES350 in both ride, handing and acceleration at low to moderate throttle openings.
04-09-18 | 01:45 AM
#44
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 69
Likes: 3
From: Pennsylvania
What about the driving experience of the 2018 Camry XLE V6 compared to the base model 2018 ES350 V6? I personally prefer new Camry's punchier yet quieter V6 performance during gentle to moderate acceleration. Although the road noise level of the 2018 Camry is about the same or slightly worse than the ES350, the Camry's suspension soaks up small road imperfections slightly better for a slightly calmer less fatiguing long distance driving experience. The wide stance and lower center of gravity of the 2018 Camry helps make it feel like an especially agile and almost Corolla size car whereas the ES350 feels larger, less agile more dated by comparison. Given the substantial improvements Toyota has made to the ride comfort and agility of the all new 2018 Camry, I am confident the 2019 ES350 will be a compelling improvement to the 2018 ES350 in both ride, handing and acceleration at low to moderate throttle openings.