ES - 6th Gen (2013-2018) Discussion topics related to 2013+ ES models

Ethanol fuel

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Old 07-27-18 | 10:51 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by st1800


Additives are added to the tanker truck at the loading rack, not at the service station. Ethanol doesn’t burn faster, it has less energy content than gasoline, hence the lower mileage.
You are correct. I am a fuel transport driver and have a lot of knowledge regarding top tier fuels and unbranded fuels. I use Sunoco fuel in my personal vehicle. Sunoco is a top tier fuel.
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Old 07-28-18 | 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bc6152
You've been running your 2013 for around 5 years without an issue and I don't know why you would want to start using a "mystery" fuel. For me, using a name brand top tier fuel at whatever price (I'm also retired and don't use a lot) is the way to go to be problem free. No "unbranded", unnamed fuel going into my car from the guy down the street... Stick to what you know and use the good stuff...
Bc.. same thing my wife said lol... she says I tend to over think it... but in all fairness originally I was under the impression that station may have an E free fuel that was a top tier fuel like Chevron... no, not like Chevron... was told it was Chevron... didn't find out til the other day that the gas was in fact unbranded... I will use it for my boat sinice it's ethanol free, but I'll keep pulling into my local Chevron station for my cars and trucks.
Old 07-29-18 | 06:52 AM
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For the record, I bought a new 2008 ES 350 and it now has over 210,000 miles on it. I didn’t know about top tier gas or gas additives. I have used nothing but the cheapest gas I could find, usually not a name brand gas. Have not had one issue with it. I averaged about 29-31 mpg. (Mostly highway driving, very little city driving as I live in the country).

Now, with that being said, I bought a new 2017 fully loaded ES 350 UL one year ago. After reading on this forum, I have put nothing but “top tier” gas in it. (Usually Shell).

I ma have just been lucky with my 08, but I’m not taking chances with the 2017! Lol

By the way, the 08 still drives, looks and runs like a brand new car!!
Old 07-29-18 | 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WNC
For the record, I bought a new 2008 ES 350 and it now has over 210,000 miles on it. I didn’t know about top tier gas or gas additives. I have used nothing but the cheapest gas I could find, usually not a name brand gas. Have not had one issue with it. I averaged about 29-31 mpg. (Mostly highway driving, very little city driving as I live in the country).

Now, with that being said, I bought a new 2017 fully loaded ES 350 UL one year ago. After reading on this forum, I have put nothing but “top tier” gas in it. (Usually Shell).

I ma have just been lucky with my 08, but I’m not taking chances with the 2017! Lol

By the way, the 08 still drives, looks and runs like a brand new car!!
My experience has been similar to yours.

I have a 2005 GX. For the entire 13 years that I've owned it, I've put the least expensive 87 octane fuel in the tank (the manual says that premium fuel is recommended, but 87 octane is okay). I also live out in the country, and, even after 13 years, the GX still gets right around the EPA highway rating of 19 mpg, and the engine still runs like new.

I also had a 2006 ES, and, similarly, I only used the least expensive 87 octane fuel that I could buy. When I traded that ES in 2013, it had 105,000 miles on the odometer, and it still ran like new and still got the EPA highway rating of 29 mpg.

Over the years, I've read numerous articles about Top Tier fuel. Some seem to be convinced that it provides real benefits, and a roughly equal number claim that it is just marketing hype. I can't say with any degree of certainty which is correct, but, for me, as long as I don't see any deterioration in mpg or general engine performance, my plan is to continue to use the least expensive 87 octane gas available, regardless of whether it is a Top Tier brand.

Also, for what it is worth, on several occasions I've seen tankers filling up the tanks at a Top Tier station and, 30 minutes later, seen the same tanker down the road filling the tanks of a non-Top Tier station I have no idea whether, at the Top Tier station, they might be adding something "extra" to the fuel, but I'm skeptical.
Old 07-29-18 | 07:51 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by lesz



Also, for what it is worth, on several occasions I've seen tankers filling up the tanks at a Top Tier station and, 30 minutes later, seen the same tanker down the road filling the tanks of a non-Top Tier station I have no idea whether, at the Top Tier station, they might be adding something "extra" to the fuel, but I'm skeptical.
Tanker Trucks have compartments, different fuel in different compartments. branded vs unbranded, or regular vs premium etc.
Old 07-29-18 | 09:38 PM
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I am not a top tier guy and I am an old dude who grew up hanging out at gas stations when they were full service stations, not attached to convenience stores. At that time the advice was not to get gas when there is either a gas truck there or one has just left from filling the tanks. When they drop the new gas in it stirs up the sediment in the tank. I still follow that advice and get gas at busy stations which generally happen to be competitively priced. I like busy stations because the gas gets turned over more often. In my area of east central Florida the Shells and the Chevrons don't do near the business of the Race Trac, Speedway, Sam's Club ( we don't have a Costco), etc. When traveling I like Pilot/Flying J. Like Poppa I use ethanol free in my lawn equipment. I get that at an independent oil company. They also sell several grades of aircraft fuel. I don't haul gas in my ES but use my '89 Corolla AllTrac Wagon. If it is low in gas I also fill it up with the 93 octane non-ethanol. That EFI '89 has never had top tier gas in it and it runs perfectly smooth as does my 2013 ES.
Old 07-30-18 | 08:55 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by JRandy
I am not a top tier guy and I am an old dude who grew up hanging out at gas stations when they were full service stations, not attached to convenience stores. At that time the advice was not to get gas when there is either a gas truck there or one has just left from filling the tanks. When they drop the new gas in it stirs up the sediment in the tank. I still follow that advice and get gas at busy stations which generally happen to be competitively priced. I like busy stations because the gas gets turned over more often. In my area of east central Florida the Shells and the Chevrons don't do near the business of the Race Trac, Speedway, Sam's Club ( we don't have a Costco), etc. When traveling I like Pilot/Flying J. Like Poppa I use ethanol free in my lawn equipment. I get that at an independent oil company. They also sell several grades of aircraft fuel. I don't haul gas in my ES but use my '89 Corolla AllTrac Wagon. If it is low in gas I also fill it up with the 93 octane non-ethanol. That EFI '89 has never had top tier gas in it and it runs perfectly smooth as does my 2013 ES.
The number of stations that are Top Tier is growing. Today, three are some 75 licensed TT brands. Even some wholesale gas stations like Costco are now selling TopTier fuel. Check out the list below. The following automakers all recommend the use of Top Tier gasoline: BMW, GM, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes, and Audi. The automakers don't make more money by recommending TT fuel. The big difference is that TT gas has a higher load of detergents, a minimum 2.5 times more than the federal mandated level. More detergents results in a cleaner engine and related components.

See this AAA study: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/07/aaa...created-equal/
AAA Abstract : http://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/fi...ull-Report.pdf
As shown in this AAA study, the additional detergents are a good thing. Consumer Reports also sites this study and recommends Top Tier gasoline. In the test cited, the use of TT fuel didn't just reduce the engine buildup by one to two times. The test showed that the buildup in a non-TT fueled engine was a whopping 19 times higher.

Here is a pretty good Wikilink on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Ti...rgent_Gasoline

https://toptiergas.com/media/TOP_TIE...ds_Uj3Aj3K.pdf

I used to run non-TT, non-ethanol fuel in my 1991 MR2. After 15 years I still thought the car was performing well but then I had the thought to add some Techron and started using TT fuel and was surprised at the noticeable performance improvement. I had gotten used to the slowly degrading performance over the years and didn't realize how much performance was lost due to the build-up. IME, TT fuel has proven it is worth the extra 3 cents a gallon.
If you haven't used a fuel cleaner and have not used TT fuel, I'd suggest you give both a shot and see if you notice the difference a clean engine can make.
Old 07-30-18 | 09:17 AM
  #23  
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It's pure marketing. BP finally caved in 2013 and became a paying member. They didn't change anything regarding their additive structure.
https://www.bp.com/en/global/corpora...e-program.html
Old 07-30-18 | 09:21 AM
  #24  
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We had a 2008 Impala that could burn E-85 "Flex Fuel". Quick math at the time showed that
it was OK to suffer the reduced MPG's because the Ethanol was cheaper. An unexpected
characteristic when using the alcohol fuel was an almost pleasant odor. Diesel and
Gasoline smell oily, alcohol smells sweet. If you could promise to only use the Ethanol
exclusively the manufacturers could raise the compression ratio significantly and the mileage
wouldn't be so much lower. (Think INDY Car!) E-85 apparently has 105 Octane.
Old 07-30-18 | 09:51 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Mike728
It's pure marketing. BP finally caved in 2013 and became a paying member. They didn't change anything regarding their additive structure.
https://www.bp.com/en/global/corpora...e-program.html
I remember this well and thought it was telling. I have a bp Visa card and use it frequently. The TT program is helpful but it's a marketing tool too.
Old 07-30-18 | 01:42 PM
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I found a 10 year old case of Techron in my garage. Is there any reason that I shouldn’t use it in my older vehicles?
Old 07-31-18 | 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dmaxdmax
I found a 10 year old case of Techron in my garage. Is there any reason that I shouldn’t use it in my older vehicles?
Dmaxdmax... I don't really have the answer to that question, but I think I probably would not use it after that long.. I googled "shelf life of techron" and looked at a few quick responses and most said they had heard or read that 5 years was the limit... There should be an 800 number on the can.. you could give them a call and ask.

Roland
Old 07-31-18 | 09:18 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Poppa
Dmaxdmax... I don't really have the answer to that question, but I think I probably would not use it after that long.. I googled "shelf life of techron" and looked at a few quick responses and most said they had heard or read that 5 years was the limit... There should be an 800 number on the can.. you could give them a call and ask.

Roland
I did the search and read the same responses and my takeaway was that it’s too little money to not buy new. Eliminating even a 1% chance is worth $10. Who cares about industrial waste!
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