Correct new tire placement
03-02-19, 12:12 PM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
Correct new tire placement
I was reading another current posting about a “tire bubble”, and was surprised to see at least two responses that said, “Always put replacement tires on the front”...I checked the TireRack site, as well as other tire info. sources, that unequivocally recommend that new tires be installed on the rear axle...I thought that such an important basic should be emphasized...apparently there is widespread confusion about this.
03-02-19, 01:46 PM
#2
Lead Lap
I think that the decision about where to put the 2 new tires becomes more complicated with a FWD vehicle, like the ES.
Having owned 2 different Generation 6 ESs over a period of 5 1/2 years, my experience has been that, over a period of 10,000 miles, I will end up with about 1/32" more wear on the front tires than on the rear tires. So, if I had, say 8/32" left on 2 old tires and replaced the other 2 tires with new tires that had 9/32" of original tread and if I put the two new tires on the front, after 10,000 miles, the remaining tread on all 4 tires should be pretty close to identical. On the other hand, if I put the two new tires on the rear, after 10,000 miles, the difference in remaining tread between the older tires and the newer tires would increase from 1/32" to 2/32", which is not good.
What is more critical, I think, is making sure that both front tires have the same (or close to the same) tread depth and that both rear tires have the same (or close to the same) remaining tread.
Having owned 2 different Generation 6 ESs over a period of 5 1/2 years, my experience has been that, over a period of 10,000 miles, I will end up with about 1/32" more wear on the front tires than on the rear tires. So, if I had, say 8/32" left on 2 old tires and replaced the other 2 tires with new tires that had 9/32" of original tread and if I put the two new tires on the front, after 10,000 miles, the remaining tread on all 4 tires should be pretty close to identical. On the other hand, if I put the two new tires on the rear, after 10,000 miles, the difference in remaining tread between the older tires and the newer tires would increase from 1/32" to 2/32", which is not good.
What is more critical, I think, is making sure that both front tires have the same (or close to the same) tread depth and that both rear tires have the same (or close to the same) remaining tread.
03-02-19, 02:09 PM
#3
I was reading another current posting about a “tire bubble”, and was surprised to see at least two responses that said, “Always put replacement tires on the front”...I checked the TireRack site, as well as other tire info. sources, that unequivocally recommend that new tires be installed on the rear axle...I thought that such an important basic should be emphasized...apparently there is widespread confusion about this.
I've always heard the best tires should be on the rear, even on a FWD vehicle. It sounds counterintuitive, but I remember Car and Driver did all sorts of testing in wet conditions on a track and they were also surprised how much better handling was experienced by putting the newer tires on the rear.
03-02-19, 03:00 PM
#4
Lead Lap
I've always heard the best tires should be on the rear, even on a FWD vehicle. It sounds counterintuitive, but I remember Car and Driver did all sorts of testing in wet conditions on a track and they were also surprised how much better handling was experienced by putting the newer tires on the rear.
Over the long run, the biggest gain from putting the new tires on the rear will be the gain that the tire dealer gets from being able to sell you new tires more sooner because, the longer you keep the old tires on the front, the bigger will be the difference between the tread on the old tires and the tread on the new tires, which means that you will be replacing those older tires sooner than you otherwise would have had to.
Last edited by lesz; 03-02-19 at 03:09 PM.
03-02-19, 03:20 PM
#5
But whatever is gained by putting the new tires on the rear is only going to be a temporary gain because, eventually, you are going to rotate the tires, and those older tires will be on the rear. Further, because you started with the older tires on the front, when you finally do rotate and put them on the rear, they are going to be even more worn than they would have been if you had started out by putting them on the rear. So, after some initial gain, you will ultimately be worse off.
Over the long run, the biggest gain from putting the new tires on the rear will be the gain that the tire dealer gets from being able to sell you new tires more sooner because, the longer you keep the old tires on the front, the bigger will be the difference between the tread on the old tires and the tread on the new tires, which means that you will be replacing those older tires sooner than you otherwise would have had to.
Over the long run, the biggest gain from putting the new tires on the rear will be the gain that the tire dealer gets from being able to sell you new tires more sooner because, the longer you keep the old tires on the front, the bigger will be the difference between the tread on the old tires and the tread on the new tires, which means that you will be replacing those older tires sooner than you otherwise would have had to.
I'm not sure I really follow your circular reasoning there. All tires eventually wear out, so therefore it doesn't matter where they are placed?
I just know about every expert opinion I've seen on this says to put them on the rear. The tire companies, tire shops, car magazines, etc. I tend to defer to them. I don't think it's a conspiracy to sell more tires.
Here's an article from Popular Mechanics on it:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...nked-10031440/
6 Common Tire Myths Debunked
2. When replacing only two tires, the new ones go on the front.
The truth: Rear tires provide stability, and without stability, steering or braking on a wet or even damp surface might cause a spin. If you have new tires up front, they will easily disperse water while the half-worn rears will go surfing: The water will literally lift the worn rear tires off the road. If you're in a slight corner or on a crowned road, the car will spin out so fast you won't be able to say, "Oh, fudge!"
There is no "even if" to this one. Whether you own a front-, rear- or all-wheel-drive car, truck, or SUV, the tires with the most tread go on the rear.
Last edited by BradTank; 03-02-19 at 03:26 PM.
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hypervish (03-02-19)
03-02-19, 04:18 PM
#6
Lead Lap
Start by assuming that, for this example, your new tires haven 9/32" of tread and that your old tires have 8/32" of tread.
Next, let's say that you do put the new tires on the rear and that you rotate the tires 10,000 miles later. At that point, the new tires are likely to have about 8/32" of tread left, and the old tires will have about 6/32" of tread left because the tires that had been on front are going to wear faster with a FWD car than the tires on the rear. So, now after you have rotated, your rear tires are the ones that only have 6/32" of tread and the front tires have 8/32". That means that, for the next 10,000 miles, your better tires are on the front, which is what the "experts" say you don't want.
On the other hand, let's say that you put the new tires on the front. Then, 10,000 miles later, those new tires will be at about 7/32" of tread because they were on the front, which is where there is faster wear. The old tires, which get less wear because they were on the rear, will also be at 7/32". From that point on, with regular rotations, you should end up with similar amounts of tread left on all 4 tires, which is what is ideal.
If I accept the thinking that the tires with more tread should be put on the rear of the car, the only way that would make long-term sense would be if I left those newer tires on the rear permanently and never rotated them. Otherwise, as soon as I do my first rotation, I'll be putting tires with 2/32" less tread on the rear. And if I try to keep the newer tires on the rear because they have more tread and if I never do rotate, those older front tires will be wearing out even faster than they would be if I did rotate. So, I'll have to replace them sooner, and, then, I'll be back with the same dilemma about whether to put the new tires on the front or the rear.
The only way that it makes long term sense to put the new tires on the rear is if the old tires are well-worn and have, say, only 4/32" of tread left. Then, with a significantly different amount of remaining tread between the old and new tires, there would be a significant safety advantage to putting the new tires on the rear. But, if my old tires only had 4/32" or 5/32" of tread left, I would be inclined to replace all 4 tires and not just 2. Otherwise, if the old tires still have most of their original tread left, the safety advantage of putting the new tires on the rear would be minimal, and doing so would, in the long term, make it impossible to ever even out the wear between the new and the old tires.
Last edited by lesz; 03-02-19 at 04:28 PM.
03-02-19, 04:45 PM
#7
First, it is not circular reasoning. But I'll try to explain with an example that should make my point clearer.
Start by assuming that, for this example, your new tires haven 9/32" of tread and that your old tires have 8/32" of tread.
Next, let's say that you do put the new tires on the rear and that you rotate the tires 10,000 miles later. At that point, the new tires are likely to have about 8/32" of tread left, and the old tires will have about 6/32" of tread left because the tires that had been on front are going to wear faster with a FWD car than the tires on the rear. So, now after you have rotated, your rear tires are the ones that only have 6/32" of tread and the front tires have 8/32". That means that, for the next 10,000 miles, your better tires are on the front, which is what the "experts" say you don't want.
On the other hand, let's say that you put the new tires on the front. Then, 10,000 miles later, those new tires will be at about 7/32" of tread because they were on the front, which is where there is faster wear. The old tires, which get less wear because they were on the rear, will also be at 7/32". From that point on, with regular rotations, you should end up with similar amounts of tread left on all 4 tires, which is what is ideal.
If I accept the thinking that the tires with more tread should be put on the rear of the car, the only way that would make long-term sense would be if I left those newer tires on the rear permanently and never rotated them. Otherwise, as soon as I do my first rotation, I'll be putting tires with 2/32" less tread on the rear. And if I try to keep the newer tires on the rear because they have more tread and if I never do rotate, those older front tires will be wearing out even faster than they would be if I did rotate. So, I'll have to replace them sooner, and, then, I'll be back with the same dilemma about whether to put the new tires on the front or the rear.
The only way that it makes long term sense to put the new tires on the rear is if the old tires are well-worn and have, say, only 4/32" of tread left. Then, with a significantly different amount of remaining tread between the old and new tires, there would be a significant safety advantage to putting the new tires on the rear. But, if my old tires only had 4/32" or 5/32" of tread left, I would be inclined to replace all 4 tires and not just 2. Otherwise, if the old tires still have most of their original tread left, the safety advantage of putting the new tires on the rear would be minimal, and doing so would, in the long term, make it impossible to ever even out the wear between the new and the old tires.
Start by assuming that, for this example, your new tires haven 9/32" of tread and that your old tires have 8/32" of tread.
Next, let's say that you do put the new tires on the rear and that you rotate the tires 10,000 miles later. At that point, the new tires are likely to have about 8/32" of tread left, and the old tires will have about 6/32" of tread left because the tires that had been on front are going to wear faster with a FWD car than the tires on the rear. So, now after you have rotated, your rear tires are the ones that only have 6/32" of tread and the front tires have 8/32". That means that, for the next 10,000 miles, your better tires are on the front, which is what the "experts" say you don't want.
On the other hand, let's say that you put the new tires on the front. Then, 10,000 miles later, those new tires will be at about 7/32" of tread because they were on the front, which is where there is faster wear. The old tires, which get less wear because they were on the rear, will also be at 7/32". From that point on, with regular rotations, you should end up with similar amounts of tread left on all 4 tires, which is what is ideal.
If I accept the thinking that the tires with more tread should be put on the rear of the car, the only way that would make long-term sense would be if I left those newer tires on the rear permanently and never rotated them. Otherwise, as soon as I do my first rotation, I'll be putting tires with 2/32" less tread on the rear. And if I try to keep the newer tires on the rear because they have more tread and if I never do rotate, those older front tires will be wearing out even faster than they would be if I did rotate. So, I'll have to replace them sooner, and, then, I'll be back with the same dilemma about whether to put the new tires on the front or the rear.
The only way that it makes long term sense to put the new tires on the rear is if the old tires are well-worn and have, say, only 4/32" of tread left. Then, with a significantly different amount of remaining tread between the old and new tires, there would be a significant safety advantage to putting the new tires on the rear. But, if my old tires only had 4/32" or 5/32" of tread left, I would be inclined to replace all 4 tires and not just 2. Otherwise, if the old tires still have most of their original tread left, the safety advantage of putting the new tires on the rear would be minimal, and doing so would, in the long term, make it impossible to ever even out the wear between the new and the old tires.
There is pretty much universal agreement on "the rear should have the newer tires" among the experts that have actually done the testing.
So I just can't see myself thinking they are all dead wrong but you are right.
Here is something from Michelin (the actual tire manufacturer)
https://www.michelinman.com/US/en/sa...ing-tires.html
"When replacing two new tires instead of four, be sure that your new tires are the same size and tire type as your current tires, and that your dealer always installs the new tires on the rear axle of your vehicle."
From Goodyear:
https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tire-...only-two-tiresInstalling Tires on the Rear Axle
When tires are replaced in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle, and the partially worn tires should be moved to the front. Driving with new tires on the rear axle can help the vehicle to maintain control on wet roads because the tires with deeper treads are more likely to resist hydroplaning.
Here's the insurance company Allstate (since it's in insurance companies best interests to have as few as accidents as possible)
https://www.allstate.com/blog/new-tires-rear/
If you buy only two new tires, consider putting them on the rear axle.
Stop with the “even ifs.” No matter if your vehicle is front-, rear-, or all-wheel-drive, a pickup, a sporty car, or an SUV: If you buy only two new tires, you should put them on the back,
_________________________
I could go on and on, but I think I know where I'm putting two new tires.
I almost always replace all 4 rather than just two, but I think people should at least be informed on what's best practice.
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tm14930 (03-03-19)
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03-03-19, 02:35 PM
#8
I am the OP of the "Tire bubble" thread. I totally get both points of view here. The strong consensus is the new ones on the back. The reason I have struggled is that Lesz has expressed my exact thoughts on increasing the tread depth differential between front and back by doing so. Seems like in my situation (please chime in) that the problem with me adding only one tire is that i would then have 3/32 or so of tread depth difference side to side if I get only one new one. That is why I am exploring the used or shaving options.
Maybe the two threads should be combined as they are directly related.
Maybe the two threads should be combined as they are directly related.
03-04-19, 03:54 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
New tires should always be put on the rear, and you will stop rotating once they're put on so they stay on the rear.
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