View Poll Results: Transmission Refill vs Flush at 60K
Transmission Flush
14
21.54%
Transmission Refill
32
49.23%
No need to change the transmission fluid... it's "lifetime" after all.
19
29.23%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll
Transmission Refill vs Flush at 60K miles
01-02-20, 10:24 AM
#46
There were increased failures in 2007 es350
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Cocal (01-02-20)
01-02-20, 12:24 PM
#47
If you want several hours of hostile entertainment, go to a party with a bunch of car guys and get them talking about this subject. It won't take long for the fights to start.
Flushing gets a bad reputation because a lot of people don't think about the transmission fluid, ever. This isn't helped by the common practice for car makers not to put flushes in their maintenance schedules. So you get a bunch of cars with 100,000+ miles on them that are still running the original fluid, and when the transmissions start to develop drivability symptoms, *that's* when the owner decides to get it flushed. The transmission then breaks, because it was going to break anyway, and the owner blames the flush because that's the last work that was done on it.
Really, either method is fine, but the drain and fill method requires that you perform it more frequently than a flush because you only replace around 1/3 of the fluid at a time. If it's been a really long time since you had the fluid exchanged, it's a good idea to do a 3x3 drain and fill, which means to drain/fill it, then drive it for a little while and drain/fill it again, and then do the process one more time. Obviously, flushes are easier, and as long as they are using the proper equipment they're fine. It uses your transmission's own pump to exchange the fluid, so nothing's getting forced into anywhere.
But, you should always have this service done by your dealership or a qualified, well-reviewed, local, independent mechanic. Not a chain shop and certainly not some place like Jiffy Lube. Places like that are much more likely to do it wrong, if they do it at all. It's not a very uncommon practice to let your car sit for an hour while they're supposed to be doing the work but aren't, and then charge you for the work anyway.
Jiffy Lube and the like are also much less likely to use the proper fluid. They'll have a bulk barrel of some generic ATF fluid that they use for every car. They will claim to put additives in it to "make it compatible with your car." Even if they do put the additives in, which they almost certainly won't, it still wouldn't be the recommended fluid and modern transmissions especially do not like being run with the wrong fluid.
Spring for a good mechanic to do this job.
Flushing gets a bad reputation because a lot of people don't think about the transmission fluid, ever. This isn't helped by the common practice for car makers not to put flushes in their maintenance schedules. So you get a bunch of cars with 100,000+ miles on them that are still running the original fluid, and when the transmissions start to develop drivability symptoms, *that's* when the owner decides to get it flushed. The transmission then breaks, because it was going to break anyway, and the owner blames the flush because that's the last work that was done on it.
Really, either method is fine, but the drain and fill method requires that you perform it more frequently than a flush because you only replace around 1/3 of the fluid at a time. If it's been a really long time since you had the fluid exchanged, it's a good idea to do a 3x3 drain and fill, which means to drain/fill it, then drive it for a little while and drain/fill it again, and then do the process one more time. Obviously, flushes are easier, and as long as they are using the proper equipment they're fine. It uses your transmission's own pump to exchange the fluid, so nothing's getting forced into anywhere.
But, you should always have this service done by your dealership or a qualified, well-reviewed, local, independent mechanic. Not a chain shop and certainly not some place like Jiffy Lube. Places like that are much more likely to do it wrong, if they do it at all. It's not a very uncommon practice to let your car sit for an hour while they're supposed to be doing the work but aren't, and then charge you for the work anyway.
Jiffy Lube and the like are also much less likely to use the proper fluid. They'll have a bulk barrel of some generic ATF fluid that they use for every car. They will claim to put additives in it to "make it compatible with your car." Even if they do put the additives in, which they almost certainly won't, it still wouldn't be the recommended fluid and modern transmissions especially do not like being run with the wrong fluid.
Spring for a good mechanic to do this job.
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Cocal (01-02-20)
01-02-20, 12:44 PM
#48
I dont even know why its a debate, there are tons of pictures of disgusting black fluid with metal sediments at the bottom of the pan on so called “sealed for life” transmissions when they are opened at 100-150k miles.
and how come some lexus dealers do the work? I think the ones that dont, do not have proper equipment/training so they point the manual as an excuse, which btw has some hidden messages about “tow” and need for change.
and how come some lexus dealers do the work? I think the ones that dont, do not have proper equipment/training so they point the manual as an excuse, which btw has some hidden messages about “tow” and need for change.
Last edited by tolian21; 01-02-20 at 12:49 PM.
01-02-20, 01:02 PM
#49
I'm reaching way back to the 90's or maybe early 2000's here, but I remember a commercial (I'm 90% sure it was for Toyota) where they welded the hood shut because it didn't need maintenance until 100,000 miles. I thought that asinine at the time, because of course it needed maintenance. They're called oil changes, especially back then when you had to get them every 3,000 miles.
But that was kind of the start of a real consumer expectation that cars should require very little TLC, which is something auto marketers are more than happy to reinforce. Combine that with what I talked about above, where people neglect the vehicle terribly and then blame whatever maintenance they begrudgingly performed last when it breaks, and that's why there's a debate.
In my opinion, there is no debate. You get it flushed by a competent mechanic using the correct fluid at least every 50,000 miles, end of story.
But that was kind of the start of a real consumer expectation that cars should require very little TLC, which is something auto marketers are more than happy to reinforce. Combine that with what I talked about above, where people neglect the vehicle terribly and then blame whatever maintenance they begrudgingly performed last when it breaks, and that's why there's a debate.
In my opinion, there is no debate. You get it flushed by a competent mechanic using the correct fluid at least every 50,000 miles, end of story.
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Chrlttmega (08-04-21)
01-02-20, 01:21 PM
#50
The only thing they figured out with years of experience is how to make fluids last longer, but its by no means forever. Its most important to take care of transmission while its still new... if you wait too long, might as well not bother
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Cocal (01-05-20)
01-05-20, 11:17 AM
#51
I am friends with a local service station owner. He will do a series of drain, fill, drive and repeat 3 times if the owner wants. I have seen many older Toyotas with over 150,000 miles still working fine with the original fluid. My nephews Camry, original fluid, started having transmission issues at 230,000 miles, but only with the overdrive.
On my 2005 Corolla, when it hit 90,000 miles, I did the 3 flushes with a bit of driving in between. The fluid did not look bad.
On my 2005 Corolla, when it hit 90,000 miles, I did the 3 flushes with a bit of driving in between. The fluid did not look bad.
01-05-20, 12:37 PM
#52
I am friends with a local service station owner. He will do a series of drain, fill, drive and repeat 3 times if the owner wants. I have seen many older Toyotas with over 150,000 miles still working fine with the original fluid. My nephews Camry, original fluid, started having transmission issues at 230,000 miles, but only with the overdrive.
On my 2005 Corolla, when it hit 90,000 miles, I did the 3 flushes with a bit of driving in between. The fluid did not look bad.
On my 2005 Corolla, when it hit 90,000 miles, I did the 3 flushes with a bit of driving in between. The fluid did not look bad.
I first thought all lexus dealers do it, its not true, some will do it. I suspect because they have expensive machine. The ones that dont have the machine tell you non-sense that you dont need it.
01-05-20, 12:40 PM
#53
I am friends with a local service station owner. He will do a series of drain, fill, drive and repeat 3 times if the owner wants. I have seen many older Toyotas with over 150,000 miles still working fine with the original fluid. My nephews Camry, original fluid, started having transmission issues at 230,000 miles, but only with the overdrive.
On my 2005 Corolla, when it hit 90,000 miles, I did the 3 flushes with a bit of driving in between. The fluid did not look bad.
On my 2005 Corolla, when it hit 90,000 miles, I did the 3 flushes with a bit of driving in between. The fluid did not look bad.
My dealer that recommended changing power steering fluid (its 2012 ES350, but shares same tranny as your 2013+) had no explanation for me why they recommend changing power steering fluid (manual does not say it needs to be changed ever), but denied transmission fluid change. Things just dont make sense.
01-05-20, 02:06 PM
#54
Advanced
Power steering fluid degrades like any other fluid, and typically never gets changed. I’ve changed many a cars PS fluids over the years and it does improve performance. Changing the PS fluid on a Lexus probably doesn’t have the sensitivities that the transmission does, in other words the PS isn’t a sealed system.
01-05-20, 06:22 PM
#55
Power steering fluid degrades like any other fluid, and typically never gets changed. I’ve changed many a cars PS fluids over the years and it does improve performance. Changing the PS fluid on a Lexus probably doesn’t have the sensitivities that the transmission does, in other words the PS isn’t a sealed system.
01-06-20, 06:18 AM
#56
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Cocal (01-06-20)
01-06-20, 10:19 AM
#57
And how are those Toyotas working at 250,000 miles? We're long past the era when 150k was a lot of miles. It's not at all unusual for a neglected transmission to make it to 150k these days. Whether or not it makes it another 100k is a different story. If you don't drive the car until it dies, it's not as big a deal for you, but if you're someone who likes to keep cars as long as possible or who doesn't like nasty surprise car purchases because your transmission self-destructed unexpectedly, then keeping up with maintenance is a really good idea.
01-06-20, 10:56 AM
#58
It is possible that you can get 200K+ miles without ever doing your ATF fluid. I just wanted to get extra level of protection to make sure my car function properly to 200K miles. Its about $270 to get fluid exchanged by lexus dealer, so I am not planning to get it every 30K miles like some people suggest. But I think if you do it every 90K-100K miles, its very reasonable expense.
I first thought all lexus dealers do it, its not true, some will do it. I suspect because they have expensive machine. The ones that dont have the machine tell you non-sense that you dont need it.
I first thought all lexus dealers do it, its not true, some will do it. I suspect because they have expensive machine. The ones that dont have the machine tell you non-sense that you dont need it.
Mercedes started this nonsense of lifetime ATF then trannies melted so they issued a TSB that only ONE exchange was needed at 39K miles and never again; Transmissions still keep failing so they issued a final TSB that requires all MB trannies to have ATF exchanged every 39K miles. Lexus' is a bit more robust being an Aisin so it can take the 50K miles, I do it at 50K Kms just because it's easier to remember.
Last edited by Cocal; 01-06-20 at 11:01 AM.
01-06-20, 10:59 AM
#59
yeah, but so called “owner manual” that some people think is a bible does not say that power steering fluid ever needs to be changed, yet dealers will recommend it. I own new Acura without dipstick for transmission, but unlike Toyota they have 60k drain/fill, which replaces about 1/3 of a fluid. They also made it complicated so average joe can not do it and you need to go to dealer, but at least it’s in the manual.
01-06-20, 03:44 PM
#60
Did a drain and fill on my 13 es300h last week at 90k miles and the first time it’s been done on the vehicle. Fluid on the left is the old and actually doesn’t look that bad (dark spots are old oil stains on the floor). Not that it was bad or noticeable before, but it is driving smoother now. Definitely more fluid feeling in acceleration.