View Poll Results: Transmission Refill vs Flush at 60K
Transmission Flush
14
21.54%
Transmission Refill
32
49.23%
No need to change the transmission fluid... it's "lifetime" after all.
19
29.23%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll
Transmission Refill vs Flush at 60K miles
01-24-20, 11:48 AM
#91
I mean that some dealers don't want to buy the machines for these fluid exchanges. Then they have to send a technician to "school" and that costs money. So some of them say I'd rather recite the mantra no fluid exchange needed and send the customer on his way.
01-24-20, 05:26 PM
#92
You might be one of the first people on the 6th gen ES350 forums who've been able to find a Lexus dealer (not a Toyota dealer) that is willing to do a fluid exchange on a "sealed" transmission. Am not sure I follow what you're saying re: the dealer expense - dealers can always provide a quote that takes into account their costs and adds a markup (as with any business).
I agree 100% re: maintenance on a severe service schedule! Better safe than sorry.
I agree 100% re: maintenance on a severe service schedule! Better safe than sorry.
I called 3 Lexus dealers around me, only one was willing to do it. They have machine for the flush, and also can do drain. I also called two toyota dealers, both can do it, I did not ask what machine they use.
Transmission WS ATF needs to be changed if you have a plan to keep your car 200k+ miles. The company that makes transmissions for toyota recommends it, and all professional mechanics and engineer call BS on "lifetime" fluid.
01-26-20, 01:47 AM
#93
1) The fluid runs hotter - 185-195 degrees in normal driving vs 158-176 for the older 4 speeds - so it oxidizes quicker
2) The WS fluid is much thinner in viscosity than the previous Type IV and Dexron III fluids so doesn't prevent wear as well, hence more wear debris accumulates in the transmission fluid.
3) All the extra shifting the 6 speeds do as compared to the 4 speed generates more wear particles in the fluid.
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Cocal (01-26-20)
01-26-20, 06:28 AM
#94
For optimum transmission life, the fluid of 6 speeds actually needs MORE frequent changing than the 4 speeds of the past because:
1) The fluid runs hotter - 185-195 degrees in normal driving vs 158-176 for the older 4 speeds - so it oxidizes quicker
2) The WS fluid is much thinner in viscosity than the previous Type IV and Dexron III fluids so doesn't prevent wear as well, hence more wear debris accumulates in the transmission fluid.
3) All the extra shifting the 6 speeds do as compared to the 4 speed generates more wear particles in the fluid.
1) The fluid runs hotter - 185-195 degrees in normal driving vs 158-176 for the older 4 speeds - so it oxidizes quicker
2) The WS fluid is much thinner in viscosity than the previous Type IV and Dexron III fluids so doesn't prevent wear as well, hence more wear debris accumulates in the transmission fluid.
3) All the extra shifting the 6 speeds do as compared to the 4 speed generates more wear particles in the fluid.
Do you know is WS fluid is synthetic?
01-26-20, 08:28 AM
#95
Lexus/Toyota is not synthetic, but there are other brands that manufacture WS ATF synthetic.
If you do a full exchange of the ATF at the recommended (by AutoTrannies Manufacturers about 50K miles or less if towing) you don't need a synthetic, though I'd prefer it, just for peace of mind.
If you do a full exchange of the ATF at the recommended (by AutoTrannies Manufacturers about 50K miles or less if towing) you don't need a synthetic, though I'd prefer it, just for peace of mind.
01-26-20, 10:54 AM
#96
Lexus/Toyota is not synthetic, but there are other brands that manufacture WS ATF synthetic.
If you do a full exchange of the ATF at the recommended (by AutoTrannies Manufacturers about 50K miles or less if towing) you don't need a synthetic, though I'd prefer it, just for peace of mind.
If you do a full exchange of the ATF at the recommended (by AutoTrannies Manufacturers about 50K miles or less if towing) you don't need a synthetic, though I'd prefer it, just for peace of mind.
01-26-20, 11:36 AM
#97
Lead Lap
Although Toyota WS transmission fluid is not full synthetic, it contains numerous chemical additives for prolonged performance. There are full synthetic transmission fluids available under the "WS" designation such as:
Ravenol - Valvoline Max Life - Castrol Transmax and others including Amsoil...
Ravenol - Valvoline Max Life - Castrol Transmax and others including Amsoil...
01-26-20, 11:38 AM
#98
I too have wondered why, but then had to concede that the engineers must know their business and perhaps their formulation is correct. Like in motor oil sometimes group 3 is more suited than grp 4. In any case if full exchange is done perhaps the point is moot.
01-26-20, 02:13 PM
#99
I think Honda had atf 3.0 which was $35 per quart
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NA2NC (05-14-20)
01-26-20, 10:24 PM
#101
Another good video about a Sienna with the U660E transmission that also verifies the simple infrared temp gun method is accurate within 1 degree.
Yet another video by a dealership trained lady that verifies (on a Tacoma 6 speed) the simple infrared temp gun method is accurate within 2 degrees (see the 10:48 minute mark
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05-14-20, 02:05 PM
#102
You should speak for yourself and not your service manager! You have provided no value added to this thread except hearsay. You've proven you have a set of ears and buy into the BS that Lexus is feeding you.
Always find it entertaining when someone starts a thread about the transmission fluid and needing to be changed. Many chime in with oh yes it needs to be changed and nothing last forever. They have ZERO experience on transmissions especially Lexus transmissions. Than there are the conspiracy theorist who state Lexus says do not change the fluid knowing it will fail as soon as it gets out of warranty. If I believed this to be true I would sell my Lexus and never ever own one again.
My local Lexus Service manager who has 25 years experience working on Lexus vehicles and has been trained by Lexus said it never needs to be changed. He went to Detroit where the transmissions are made for training and asked what is the #1 cause of Lexus transmission failing. Their reply was the wrong level of fluid and the wrong fluid. Both of these are factors in one changing the fluid. I will save my money and never change the fluid and listen to the experts. Never changed the transmission fluid and never had one problem.
My local Lexus Service manager who has 25 years experience working on Lexus vehicles and has been trained by Lexus said it never needs to be changed. He went to Detroit where the transmissions are made for training and asked what is the #1 cause of Lexus transmission failing. Their reply was the wrong level of fluid and the wrong fluid. Both of these are factors in one changing the fluid. I will save my money and never change the fluid and listen to the experts. Never changed the transmission fluid and never had one problem.
05-14-20, 03:38 PM
#103
Lead Lap
Here we go again Freds... I'm with you and your service manager and have no plans to ever change my tranny fluid. 
05-24-20, 08:30 AM
#104
I think at the end of the day it boils down to this. If you plan to keep the car, do a drain and fill service interval. If not, don't worry about it.
The Toyota Fluid is Not full Synthetic at all.
They would not give you a Service to do for Towing if it was a absolute No change.
I changed mine twice now. Drain and fill only, Switched to the Valvoline Full Synthetic. Trans shifts better too. I plan to keep my ES a few more years.
If it was Lifetime, Lexus should back that up by Replacing any Tranny that fails, if it never had a Fluid change and has the original "Claimed Lifetime Toyota Fluid" in it.
The Toyota Fluid is Not full Synthetic at all.
They would not give you a Service to do for Towing if it was a absolute No change.
I changed mine twice now. Drain and fill only, Switched to the Valvoline Full Synthetic. Trans shifts better too. I plan to keep my ES a few more years.
If it was Lifetime, Lexus should back that up by Replacing any Tranny that fails, if it never had a Fluid change and has the original "Claimed Lifetime Toyota Fluid" in it.
07-05-20, 10:29 PM
#105
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wondering if anyone has any expertise on the matter.
just had my fluid drained and refilled, but the mec just did a measure of fluid out approximately (1,9L) and added ~2 bottles (2L). no temp check and and overflow.
2013 es350 has 6.5 transaxle capacity i believe.
how precise should the fluid in and out be? would 0.1 L difference be a cause for concern?
just had my fluid drained and refilled, but the mec just did a measure of fluid out approximately (1,9L) and added ~2 bottles (2L). no temp check and and overflow.
2013 es350 has 6.5 transaxle capacity i believe.
how precise should the fluid in and out be? would 0.1 L difference be a cause for concern?