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Those renders are lousy. They re-use the existing camry doors. i wouldn't put much stock into those...
The 2025 Camry will be a Major Model Change, not a Full Model Change.
Like the 2016 Tacoma, 2007 and 2012 Camry it will be treated as the 9th generation vehicle, but it will be a heavy redo of the existing model.
For the 2018 model year, the Camry was entirely new for the first time since September 2001.
And so was the ES, in August 2018 for the 2019 model year.
TO EVERYONE:
I'm not an ES owner, but I noticed a missing piece in the puzzle.
Credit to Lexus Enthusiast
This is the 2025 Lexus ES in some form, probably the newest design teased in this 2021 showcase.
This was from December 14, 2021, just 33 months before that vehicle enters production in 2024. Usually final design work is finished some 3 years before release, so that's a veiled idea of that 2025 vehicle.
Don't believe me? Here was the 2023 RX, 2024 TX, 2023 UX, and 2022 NX as well. Plus a yet to be revealed compact.
This was intended to reveal all ICE Lexus models through 2024, in the shadowy background.
When I saw this presentation in 2021, I had dismissed it as being somewhat possibly fiction. When I saw the 2023 RX was a dead ringer for the rendering in May of 2022, I panicked and realized Toyota was showing almost every future model.
I also noticed that the doors and DLO on the ES like car, was different from the current model too. Studying previous TNGA designs, they're all very conservative and evolutionary.
Seems to me that only the '25 front end is being hidden by Lexus in the presentation, until they're ready to reveal it in 2024.
This was the case with the RX from what I remember:
Toyota boldly on December 14, 2021, showcased nearly every new model they had coming through the end of 2024. Only ICE RWD and 4x4 Lexus models weren't shown in this showcase.
So much talk about the Camry…until this last generation when the ES left that anchor around its neck behind and moved to platform share with the Avalon, I hope we don’t have to go back to the tired old “it’s just a fancy Camry” garbage again.
Looks like 2024-30 Lexus 8ES getting the six-sided windows design similar to 5LS.
The longer wheelbase combined with the six sided window design should distance itself more from Camry.
So much talk about the Camry…until this last generation when the ES left that anchor around its neck behind and moved to platform share with the Avalon, I hope we don’t have to go back to the tired old “it’s just a fancy Camry” garbage again.
I don't see why anyone should be thinking that, unless they're not paying attention and are trolling because they hate the brand/parent company.
The ES has not been a fancy Camry for many years now. Everyone will have their different opinions which generation that line was drawn.
The ES became based on the K Platform Avalon over a decade ago, debuting in 2012 for the 2013 MY.
Greater degrees of separation were established when the modular GA-K was introduced to the Lexus brand in 2018 on the current XZ10 ES.
Today, the ES is simply a large luxury FWD/AWD sedan manufactured by the Toyota Motor Company and sold under the Lexus brand division, which uses its own unique application of the TNGA-K FWD architecture.
It is not directly based on the Camry and hasn't been for a very long time, so I don't see why anyone should say that.
People have a poor understanding of vehicle architectures if they think that. I wouldn't really concern yourself.
Originally Posted by peteharvey
Looks like 2024-30 Lexus 8ES getting the six-sided windows design similar to 5LS.
The longer wheelbase combined with the six sided window design should distance itself more from Camry.
Yes, that's indeed what is happening. Thank you for highlighting that further, because I was a bit too lazy to do it myself. We've had access to this image for about 15 months now, yet it's commonly missed and forgetten.
We have about 70% of the design in front of us, except a close-up of the rear and the complete fascia unmasked. I think this is one of the earliest reveals of a future model I've seen from this company.
The LC doesn't count since that was a concept. 3 years ahead of introduction is ridiculously bold to be leaking a volume seller, but since there's no competition anymore I guess there's no big deal.
I don't see why anyone should be thinking that, unless they're not paying attention and are trolling because they hate the brand/parent company.
The ES has not been a fancy Camry for many years now. Everyone will have their different opinions which generation that line was drawn.
The ES became based on the K Platform Avalon over a decade ago, debuting in 2012 for the 2013 MY.
Greater degrees of separation were established when the modular GA-K was introduced to the Lexus brand in 2018 on the current XZ10 ES.
Today, the ES is simply a large luxury FWD/AWD sedan manufactured by the Toyota Motor Company and sold under the Lexus brand division, which uses its own unique application of the TNGA-K FWD architecture.
It is not directly based on the Camry and hasn't been for a very long time, so I don't see why anyone should say that.
People have a poor understanding of vehicle architectures if they think that. I wouldn't really concern yourself.
Yes, that's indeed what is happening. Thank you for highlighting that further, because I was a bit too lazy to do it myself. We've had access to this image for about 15 months now, yet it's commonly missed and forgetten.
We have about 70% of the design in front of us, except a close-up of the rear and the complete fascia unmasked. I think this is one of the earliest reveals of a future model I've seen from this company.
The LC doesn't count since that was a concept. 3 years ahead of introduction is ridiculously bold to be leaking a volume seller, but since there's no competition anymore I guess there's no big deal.
What do y’all think about the new 2025 Camry? In my opinion, seeing as the new Camry is just a very heavily refreshed model instead of a brand new model I assume the ES will receive the same treatment. Coinciding with what I’ve said, I’m sure the ES will be receiving a brand new interior, and revised front and rear ends if the new Camry is anything to go by.
Powertrains in my opinion is all but confirmed, the ES will most definitely receive the revised duo of 2.5 4 cylinder hybrid fwd/awd from the new Camry, which is producing 225hp and 232 hp respectively. In my personal experience with our family’s 2020 ES 300h Ultra Luxury the powertrain was perfectly refined and powerful enough with excellent MPG, so seeing hp bumps in the revised version will be a welcomed sight.
However, what I’m more excited to see is when the ES receives the 2.4 turbo hybrid awd powertrain from the Crown and RX500h. In my experience with the RX500h the powertrain was very smooth and potent and the vehicle handled very neutrally due in part to its new variable dampening system and rear-wheel steering system. If Toyota was planning to have the ES fully fill the slot of the GS, which I firmly believe they are, that powertrain will prove very potent with a revised variable dampening system plus the rear-wheel steering system. Which will be accentuated by the ES’ lighter curb weight.
To support that claim, the Direct4 E-Axle that debuted with the introduction of the RX500h’s powertrain was first tested using the ES, which shows Lexus’ intention for the ES to finally bridge the gap between the IS and the LS that once was the GS; a comfortable and sporty midsize cruiser.
What do y’all think about the new 2025 Camry? In my opinion, seeing as the new Camry is just a very heavily refreshed model instead of a brand new model I assume the ES will receive the same treatment. Coinciding with what I’ve said, I’m sure the ES will be receiving a brand new interior, and revised front and rear ends if the new Camry is anything to go by.
Powertrains in my opinion is all but confirmed, the ES will most definitely receive the revised duo of 2.5 4 cylinder hybrid fwd/awd from the new Camry, which is producing 225hp and 232 hp respectively. In my personal experience with our family’s 2020 ES 300h Ultra Luxury the powertrain was perfectly refined and powerful enough with excellent MPG, so seeing hp bumps in the revised version will be a welcomed sight.
However, what I’m more excited to see is when the ES receives the 2.4 turbo hybrid awd powertrain from the Crown and RX500h. In my experience with the RX500h the powertrain was very smooth and potent and the vehicle handled very neutrally due in part to its new variable dampening system and rear-wheel steering system. If Toyota was planning to have the ES fully fill the slot of the GS, which I firmly believe they are, that powertrain will prove very potent with a revised variable dampening system plus the rear-wheel steering system. Which will be accentuated by the ES’ lighter curb weight.
To support that claim, the Direct4 E-Axle that debuted with the introduction of the RX500h’s powertrain was first tested using the ES, which shows Lexus’ intention for the ES to finally bridge the gap between the IS and the LS that once was the GS; a comfortable and sporty midsize cruiser.
Am I correct that your expectation of the 2025 Gen 8, then, is:
1) Only turbo 4 hybrid engines available (no v-6 and no non-hybrid option)
2) Styling, exterior, heavily refreshed but not all,new
3) Styling interior will be re-done
Should that be the case, I, for one, am out. I don’t like hybrids. I’ll either buy one of the last 2024 ES 350’s (price is already dipping to over 10% off sticker) or check out the Genesis G80 or maybe simply keep my perfect low miles 2021 ES 350.
The UX hybrid is the only one Lexus has mentioned for 2025 and this is March. Wonder what was the latest Lexus has announced a model change for the next year model.
All conjecture... No one knows what engines will go in which car and even if 2025 brings a new model/generation.
No public source knows that, true, but one cannot ignore the reality of the trends in the auto industry across the globe, or at Toyota and Lexus. The likelihood that the ES would retain a V-6, even as an option) rather than only having a 4 (likely turbo charged) is exceedingly small. Manufacturers are now able to get loads of power and torque out of these smaller engines, albeit at a price to consumers in the form of more intense maintenance, usually the need for premium fuel, and potentially less reliability over time. Toyota, in particular, seems to have hard to explain difficulty in making a truly smooth 4 for their luxury brands. I’ve driven turbo-4 Mercedes and if you didn’t know it from the sound and smoothness like a V-6. Reviews of the NX and RX, for instance, usually note the comparative harshness and coarse sound of the fours, most notably during acceleration. That may be fine if a Corolla or even a Camry, but not in their luxury lineup.
The V6 is such a sweet engine with power and smooth as a baby's a$$... Would be sorry to see it go... I rented a BMW in Germany with the auto shutoff when stopped but you could turn it off if desired... What a PITA...
The switch to disable start/stop is more popular than the "feature" itself.
03-07-23, 02:48 PM
