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That doesn't matter, as the LS was seen by Lexus as a Panamera and Jaguar XJ competitor. Toyota is not going to engineer the ES to do that and clearly didn't in developing this upcoming vehicle, based on a carryover architecture. This is such a random, eleventh hour request.
The time to make such requests was back in 2019-2021, during early R&D. It is now beyond the point of return.
It is already deep into testing at this point and all the final engineering drawings were completed more than 1 year ago, since production begins in just 18 months. The car I showed you, is the final article, largely disguised on the fascia, but final in every sense.
I don't see them creating a second body style for it either. If Lexus is even forced to do that now, don't expect such a vehicle until well into 2026.
In example, the RX-L was ordered by Akio Toyoda in December 2014 and didn't appear in Lexus showrooms until January 2018. AL20 RX for 2016 was supposed to be a 5-seater only, during development from 2010-2015.
At the 11th hour, US dealers revolted after seeing the proposed 2017 RC convertible on display at a November 2014 conference and zero plans for a crossover. TX had just been cancelled again, as there was no business case for reusing the 14 year old K Platform for a new TX model beyond the 2016 RX and they weren't ready to use RWD TNGA-L or FWD TNGA-K for it.
The RX was due in December 2015, just 1 year away back then, so another body style was ordered in RX-L.
TX is coming now, because TNGA-K architecture is available and developed enough, to utilize for a large vehicle. The RX-L was more related to the old pre-2020 Highlander.
Point is, these ES product decisions were already decided on long ago and a dead end conversation. This would be suitable for a 9th generation ES, if that is even ICE and I doubt it will be come 2030-31.
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I saw this the other day, i figured someone would've posted by now. But anyway we know a decent indicator of an 8ES would be the next gen Camry. So here's a teaser of the new Camry... which is slated to debut at the LA Auto Show next month.
From what I gather, it appears Toyota is taking a page from the New Accord playbook by recycling the old chassis instead of creating an all new one. Just as the Crown is largely a re-skin (posts roughly the same crash results of the old TNGA platform), I believe this new Camry and thus the new ES, will largely(roughly) re-use the current platform. Heck I believe this new Camry even re-uses the existing mirrors! Time will tell!
There’s nothing wrong with the current TNGA-K platform that underpins this and numerous other models globally, so why would Toyota spend billions to redo it? The design attached to it can change a lot with the same base platform, which, in any event, can support widely varied vehicles, currently, for Lexus, the ES, LM, NX, RX and TX. So there’s no need for them to reinvent the wheel.
Well it's just that it's been tradition for car makers to develop a new BIW for each successive generation. However with crossovers, those tend to get more development dollars lately.
And functionally, structurally, and safety-wise, a new BIW would be very welcome considering the ride, NVH, and safety shortcomings of the current platform. Current programme has barely acceptable side impact crush characteristics for 2023+. If they can solidly re-tweak as Honda did with its Accord, that would be fine I guess.
I even said before I wouldn't mind an 8ES in the style and manner the 3IS got a re-skin. I was the original poster of that specific desire so I sort of telegraphed this 8ES long ago if it's true it won't be a total re-design. I just want it to be AT LEAST a good re-work of the existing platform, if no re-design is coming.
I would bet they will update the structure of the new gen cars to perform better in today’s more stringent tests.
In the past with the 4GS, when it came out in 2013, the IIHS or whoever was not testing the passenger side of vehicles in the overlap front crash test.
They began testing them and found automakers weren’t strengthening this side of the car because they knew it wasn’t being tested, so to make vehicles safer, they began requiring vehicles to perform well on the passenger side if they wanted a Good rating so OEMs had to start making the passenger side safer, and did.
For the 2016 facelift of the GS, Lexus made these structural changes to align with the new testing. I imagine the new ES, despite being on the same platform as its predecessor, will be a safer vehicle and will likely perform well in today’s tests.
I would bet they will update the structure of the new gen cars to perform better in today’s more stringent tests.
In the past with the 4GS, when it came out in 2013, the IIHS or whoever was not testing the passenger side of vehicles in the overlap front crash test.
They began testing them and found automakers weren’t strengthening this side of the car because they knew it wasn’t being tested, so to make vehicles safer, they began requiring vehicles to perform well on the passenger side if they wanted a Good rating so OEMs had to start making the passenger side safer, and did.
For the 2016 facelift of the GS, Lexus made these structural changes to align with the new testing. I imagine the new ES, despite being on the same platform as its predecessor, will be a safer vehicle and will likely perform well in today’s tests.
So you know, the 2023 ES (not even 2022) did not even outperform the Corolla crush wise on the side impact. Torso, pelvis, side structure got battered. (again 23 ES, not even 22 and older, which would be worse) 23 contains updates.
anyway.. you'd think that would be true (quoted/bolded your post) however the new Toyota Crown gets only an "Acceptable structure" in the new test... even though it's a new car... because they recycled the old platform. like i said in my original post. Yes I hope for the new Camry to improve.. but if it follows the Crown.. i doubt it. It will still be a generally safe car but I like to see big improvements like the New Accord. The New Accord -- Honda engineers did geat. That structure got a Green "Good" Score. Beefy. Well done Honda!
So you know, the 2023 ES (not even 2022) did not even outperform the Corolla crush wise on the side impact. Torso, pelvis, side structure got battered. (again 23 ES, not even 22 and older, which would be worse) 23 contains updates.
anyway.. you'd think that would be true (quoted/bolded your post) however the new Toyota Crown gets only an "Acceptable structure" in the new test... even though it's a new car... because they recycled the old platform. like i said in my original post. Yes I hope for the new Camry to improve.. but if it follows the Crown.. i doubt it. It will still be a generally safe car but I like to see big improvements like the New Accord. The New Accord -- Honda engineers did geat. That structure got a Green "Good" Score. Beefy. Well done Honda!
Oh wow, didn't know all that. That's not as encouraging lol
And functionally, structurally, and safety-wise, a new BIW would be very welcome considering the ride, NVH, and safety shortcomings of the current platform.
What are these "shortcomings"? Yes, I know you've made multiple posts with sweeping indictments of TNGA's safety based solely on its "acceptable" rating in the side impact test. But "ride and NVH shortcomings"?
Independent reviewers have heaped praise on the ES as one of the quietest, best-riding cars of any type below $60,000. (Motor Trend titled its review "Reveling in the Sound of Silence." Savagegeese, en route to naming the ES the best entry-luxury sedan for 2022, said it "rides amazing over every pavement type." Highway sound testing rated it 1 dB louder than a Mercedes S Class.)
You have criticized and downplayed each of these findings in various posts, but they all exist. And given your stated prejudice against the two (you bought two!) lemons you claim to have owned, and your stated allegiance to a competing automaker, I see no reason to discard the findings of all these professionals and my own personal experience to embrace your conflicting view instead.
The back end of the pictured car is credible and evolutionary. The front end is a bit much. The last picture is a beautiful car but it looks way too sporty to market as a 350 ES. That said, I'm 75 years old but I'd buy it in a heartbeat!
To me it looks like the second picture down from the top has an ‘L’ as its first identifier…hmmm…this angles down taillights are similar to the current LS.
03-20-23, 12:21 PM
I don't think people care how it looks, it will still sell like a hot cake.
