Observations on Mark Levinson Audio on 2023 ES 350 - Average at best
04-08-23, 11:24 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
^^ Exactly. The best systems sound great any any volume to the point where you should be turning down the **** to protect your ears. Effortless no matter how much you crank it. Why audio engineers make a system capable of getting loud way past serious distortion levels is beyond me. No one is going to listen to the system like that and enjoy it.
04-08-23, 11:44 AM
#17
Instructor
File compression in itself is encoding. Any kind of compression format can contain any quality audio but I think what we are trying to infer here is to put the best quality possible into a format that will sound the best in our car. The following quote is from Audio Encoding 101....
WHAT IS ENCODING?
Encoding is the process of changing digital audio from one format to another. There are two broad types of formats - uncompressed and compressed.- Uncompressed audio is mainly found in the PCM format of audio CDs. Generally, audio encoding means going from uncompressed PCM, to some kind of compressed audio format.
04-08-23, 11:55 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
File compression is not the same as perceptual compression, meaning lossy. These two are often confused.
Here's something almost no one thinks about. Digital audio files are 100% lossy, the entire original sound is lost forever. Yes it is faithfully reproduced to a high degree but it is still a fake. Only way to experience true so to speak lossless music is go to a live orchestra.
Here's something almost no one thinks about. Digital audio files are 100% lossy, the entire original sound is lost forever. Yes it is faithfully reproduced to a high degree but it is still a fake. Only way to experience true so to speak lossless music is go to a live orchestra.
04-08-23, 12:08 PM
#19
Presently, I have two ML systems.
For a layman, they might sound good.
For a semi-audiophile like me, ML is only average.
The headunit is actually a Pioneer or something like that, but most head units put out a pretty good signal.
The ML is an amplifier, and it is okay.
The Pioneer or non-branded speakers is the weakest link.
Hence, an enthusiast might want to replace the speaker first with something like these:
Product guide | Focal
PS 165 V1 component kit - Focal | Focal
A front pair of component two-way speakers with tweeter and 6.5" woofer may cost up to $2.5k or even more, but this will blow Audi & BMW OEM systems away.
If you're more keen, then replace the ML amplifier too.
More keen again, then replace the 10" subwoofer with an aftermarket unit.
For a layman, they might sound good.
For a semi-audiophile like me, ML is only average.
The headunit is actually a Pioneer or something like that, but most head units put out a pretty good signal.
The ML is an amplifier, and it is okay.
The Pioneer or non-branded speakers is the weakest link.
Hence, an enthusiast might want to replace the speaker first with something like these:
Product guide | Focal
PS 165 V1 component kit - Focal | Focal
A front pair of component two-way speakers with tweeter and 6.5" woofer may cost up to $2.5k or even more, but this will blow Audi & BMW OEM systems away.
If you're more keen, then replace the ML amplifier too.
More keen again, then replace the 10" subwoofer with an aftermarket unit.
04-08-23, 12:17 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
Focal likely makes the best speakers for automotive use you can buy. And you pay for it. What amplifier would you consider to replace the ML?
In my experience you can't simply replace speakers while keeping the stock amp and automatically expect a better result. All the components are tuned to work with one another, you may improve sound or make it worse. I've noticed ML speakers are VERY bright but they mitigate this by tuning the rest of the audio chain. Running ML speakers on an aftermarket amp gives you very strong midrange. I've tried.
In my experience you can't simply replace speakers while keeping the stock amp and automatically expect a better result. All the components are tuned to work with one another, you may improve sound or make it worse. I've noticed ML speakers are VERY bright but they mitigate this by tuning the rest of the audio chain. Running ML speakers on an aftermarket amp gives you very strong midrange. I've tried.
04-08-23, 12:49 PM
#21
Instructor
04-08-23, 01:25 PM
#22
Focal likely makes the best speakers for automotive use you can buy. And you pay for it. What amplifier would you consider to replace the ML?
In my experience you can't simply replace speakers while keeping the stock amp and automatically expect a better result. All the components are tuned to work with one another, you may improve sound or make it worse. I've noticed ML speakers are VERY bright but they mitigate this by tuning the rest of the audio chain. Running ML speakers on an aftermarket amp gives you very strong midrange. I've tried.
In my experience you can't simply replace speakers while keeping the stock amp and automatically expect a better result. All the components are tuned to work with one another, you may improve sound or make it worse. I've noticed ML speakers are VERY bright but they mitigate this by tuning the rest of the audio chain. Running ML speakers on an aftermarket amp gives you very strong midrange. I've tried.
I haven't even had time to install Apple Car Play or Android Auto wireless adapters into my vehicles.
So what make model amplifier do you recommend LeX2k?
Also, what subwoofer would you recommend?
So many available, and such a broad price range to choose from too.
04-08-23, 02:02 PM
#23
Lexus Champion
#1 problem with building your own audio system for a car is even if you get the best of the best components you are putting them into a space that is far from ideal. That's why the best systems I've heard have what many would consider laughable stats. The speakers they use are generic with paper cones. But because they are using precise computer modeling and DSP tuning the system is incredible.
04-08-23, 02:34 PM
#24
Instructor
Any system built is as good as it's weakest link so the entire system would have to be rebuilt I guess. I am at the age now where what I have sounds perfectly fine to me with a good source but in my younger years I probably would try to make it better.
04-09-23, 12:47 PM
#25
Been lurking on this thread for a while. I don't spend a lot of money on audio in a car as I don't spend a lot of time there, aside from a few long trips per year. However I do enjoy high quality audio at home. I've ripped my 1500 cd collection twice (first at 256k mp3 about 20 years ago and again in FLAC about 7 years ago). I probably have another 300 albums in much lower quantity (I'll take the 5th if asked about how I got those)
One thing that I keep reading is that ML is not good with low quality audio. I find that to be a major downfall. At home, while I can tell when I am listening to a lower quality mp3 (or any other low bit rate, lossy compression format), it doesn't sound bad. I would still expect things like 128k mp3 or SiriusXM (maybe 64kp/s) to be reproduced accurately (and decently) but not worse than I would expect.
It almost sounds like on the ML, I should expect them to sound worse than they really should. Am I misunderstanding what is being said?
One thing that I keep reading is that ML is not good with low quality audio. I find that to be a major downfall. At home, while I can tell when I am listening to a lower quality mp3 (or any other low bit rate, lossy compression format), it doesn't sound bad. I would still expect things like 128k mp3 or SiriusXM (maybe 64kp/s) to be reproduced accurately (and decently) but not worse than I would expect.
It almost sounds like on the ML, I should expect them to sound worse than they really should. Am I misunderstanding what is being said?
04-09-23, 12:59 PM
#26
The ML has a very bright and forward sound signature which will exaggerate compression artifacts.
Theres no reason an MP3 can’t sound good if encoded at a reasonable bitrate and bandwidth these days.
Theres no reason an MP3 can’t sound good if encoded at a reasonable bitrate and bandwidth these days.
04-09-23, 06:31 PM
#27
Been lurking on this thread for a while. I don't spend a lot of money on audio in a car as I don't spend a lot of time there, aside from a few long trips per year. However I do enjoy high quality audio at home. I've ripped my 1500 cd collection twice (first at 256k mp3 about 20 years ago and again in FLAC about 7 years ago). I probably have another 300 albums in much lower quantity (I'll take the 5th if asked about how I got those)
One thing that I keep reading is that ML is not good with low quality audio. I find that to be a major downfall. At home, while I can tell when I am listening to a lower quality mp3 (or any other low bit rate, lossy compression format), it doesn't sound bad. I would still expect things like 128k mp3 or SiriusXM (maybe 64kp/s) to be reproduced accurately (and decently) but not worse than I would expect.
It almost sounds like on the ML, I should expect them to sound worse than they really should. Am I misunderstanding what is being said?
One thing that I keep reading is that ML is not good with low quality audio. I find that to be a major downfall. At home, while I can tell when I am listening to a lower quality mp3 (or any other low bit rate, lossy compression format), it doesn't sound bad. I would still expect things like 128k mp3 or SiriusXM (maybe 64kp/s) to be reproduced accurately (and decently) but not worse than I would expect.
It almost sounds like on the ML, I should expect them to sound worse than they really should. Am I misunderstanding what is being said?
04-10-23, 08:12 AM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
Haha sorry Mike that was a pretty good response from barbequed apples. lol.
bang and olufsen is pretty cool. turns out they designed & tuned the system in my current car. and it rocks.
still need to sell my ES door sills.
bang and olufsen is pretty cool. turns out they designed & tuned the system in my current car. and it rocks.
still need to sell my ES door sills.
04-10-23, 08:46 AM
#29
I added two JBL Nano's under the front seats which added enough bass for my liking. Otherwise, the highs and mids are acceptable. The ELS system in my 2012 Acura TL was better in both regards however and didn't need any additions.
04-10-23, 10:37 AM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
