dano

I am contemplating eschewing the SUV craze and getting back in a sedan. I buy pre-owned and have narrowed it down to 2 particular cars, a 2020 ES350 F Sport with ML, Atomic Silver/red NuLuxe or a 2020 Mazda6 Signature with Bose Centerpoint/ Snowflake pearl/parchment. Miles are the same but the price is $9k apart. Brand new they were $14k different. My main concern with the ES is the ML audio system. My 2005 ES had it and it was outstanding. I haven’t heard it in the 2020 ES as I have yet to test drive the car. What I have read though is a common complaint about the poor quality of the ML in the current gen ES. I have heard the Bose in the Mazda6 Signature and for what it is it sounds very good, better than any other Bose I have heard in other cars. IS THE ML IN THE 2020 ES REALLY THAT BAD? If so, it’s a deal breaker. With 10k songs in my lossless Apple Music library my tunes need a system that breathes.

bc6152

You can't take the advice from a forum. You should bring your USB stick or whatever you use to the dealer and try it out. Members on this forum have very contrasting opinions on the sound quality of the Marc Levinson system. Some love it and some are very disappointed that they spent extra money for the option. You are the best judge.

alextv

The above is good advice as only you can determine the quality you want. The ML in my 2020 ES300h UL sounds great to me. My 2001 LS430 UL sounds better but that is also a different car size.

AndrewLWSN

There's also the fact that you will most likely get use to the sound system once you are listening to it regularly, unless you came from a top tier sound system from your old car to a bottom tier sound system in your new car, which is not the case here. Both sound system here are pretty decent. I don't have experience with Bose sound system in cars, but it is usually more known than ML and it ranked pretty high, so it might have an edge here. I have the ML sound system and found it to be pretty darn good (I haven't came across a sound system that completely blew my mind at the first hearing like in a studio)

ESh

I am super happy with it.

UltraLux22

Unfortunately, bc152 is spot on!😀
Perceived audio quality is very subjective, and no matter what anyone says, you will love or hate it or, at the very least, be disappointed. However, it's our nature to judge and use our perspective in evaluating future decisions with our past experiences. So why would your audio be any different?
You must listen for yourself. 2 days ago; I test-drove a 23 QX80 Sensory, a $91k with a top-of-the-line BOSE system. Utilizing wireless and corded carplay and armed with a high-quality audio source, I played 3 test songs, but I knew within the first 10 seconds the disappointment I was in for. I was disappointed and stunned. The sound, regardless of volume, needed to be stronger and more robust for a premium sound system, and the base needed to be more impressive. I honestly expected it to blow me away at that price point. The ML in my 22 Ultra Lux. is superior in every way. I was considering going with this SUV because the deal was phenomenal. Now I know why it was so good. "Anyone in the market? Ive' negotiated an exceptional deal". That's another story. No ML audio in the next Lexus would be an absolute deal-breaker. Speaking of, my dealer is getting 3 Ultra Luxs, and they all have ML AUDIO!!!!!!! YaY!!


See above. The Bose in the large SUV needed to be improved. I was expecting a boomy, bright, and enveloping sound. Instead, it was thin; weak at higher volumes, which worsened the audio. I tried everything to improve the output, but there was no salvaging it.

Here's my take. Many owners are likely accustomed to premium sound systems due to Lexus not being their first rodeo with luxury brands, which usually have higher-quality audio systems. Some owners' auditory acuity is such that only the best will do. These folks are typically referred to as audiophiles. Those from a particular generation are more likely not to be cranking it to the max and headbanging; some couldn't care less. When vehicle audio is of great importance, treat it as just as important as seat quality or any other common element of the car. Be prepared to test multiple methods and music to complete during your test drive. Although Premium Car Audio has been too often presented as a "nice-to-have" feature, it has been globally ranked #7 in the top most desirable features in new vehicles today!

It's one of those things that when you know, you know.

KMiles

We've only had our 2019 Lexus ES350 F Sport with ML for a week and I've been doing lots of testing of the sound system. Overall it sounds much better than the system that is in our 2010 ES 350. When using Apple CarPlay and playing it through the USB connected iPhone - music sounds great. Some of the local FM stations have a crackling sound that I don't hear on other stations or with other media. SiriusXM via my iPhone sounds good. Fade from front to rear is good, not great.

No matter what, you need to test it using music that you listen to regularly. You really need to compare both cars using the same songs, settings at neutral and within an hour of each other. I would use music that has lots of range. Your memory of music fades quickly and if you wait too long in doing your comparisons, you'll not get a good comparison. If both cars have a CD, you might take the same CD from car to car to compare. So many of the digital sources, especially satellite have lots of compression and decompression going on.

Shaboom

I care little about musical quality in my car. Most of the time actually, I'm listening to talk radio (I'd probably have lower blood pressure readings if I listen to more music and less of those aggravating talk arguments!) But you have your priorities and I respect that.
However, before pulling the trigger on the purchase, please also consider the quality of each of the cars, mechanically. I suggest that the Lexus is a finer automobile than the Mazda and you don't want to let the tail wag the dog, so to speak. Think about that a bit before you make your move. Hard to beat the Lexus for comfort, quality and longevity. Just sayin'...

LexFinally

"No matter what, you need to test it using music that you listen to regularly. You really need to compare both cars using the same songs, settings at neutral and within an hour of each other."

I half agree. Music you know, yes. The same settings, no. The clarity of the ML is outstanding, but the knock on it is that the soundstage is too front-heavy. To remedy this, you need to move the fader two steps back from center and turn Surround to Off. If you don't take these steps, it's deliberately hobbling the system to give you less than its best sound.

BTW, I test drove a Mazda 6 Signature Turbo with high expectations and was left a little meh. I drive an ES 350 Luxury and ordered one. I think you'll find that with the exception of the Mazda's beautiful interior materials, the car as a whole comes up just a little bit short of the Lexus in multiple respects. Michael Karesh at the True Delta site did this exact comparison test, and he reached the exact same conclusion. https://www.truedelta.com/Lexus-ES/pros-and-cons-M263

Lesley248

I can't speaking as an audiophile but I do love my vehicles and listening to music in them. I used to drive 2014 Mazda 6 and was comparing to a 2019 Mazda 6 vs es350. Ended up going with es350 base but no ML. I have also been in the newer Mazda 6 a few times and would still pick Lexus without hesitation based on driving experience, comfort, quality and longevity. I don't remember how the sound system was like for the Mazda 6 but guessing it didn't stand out enough for me to remember when I was shopping last year. One big reason that motivated me to want to look in the first place was because Mazda doesn't hold value well and used car market was so fire that I only lost about $3000 over 5 years in ownership. Speaking on a regular market, a Lexus would hold value so much better than any Mazda.

Haven't really spent time with ML but I would say the sound sounds good enough for me to enjoy while I'm inside. It's not something that I'm going to be blasting at a block party but certainly something to jam through while stuck NYC rush hour traffic. Not really comparable now but the 2014 Mazda sound was disgustingly atrocious.

Just my 2 cents. Hopefully it was somewhat helpful and not me just rambling.

bc6152

Had to laugh at your statement "It's not something that I'm going to be blasting at a block party" Bet most on this forum don't know what a block party is, but we do...

UltraLux22

Isn’t that a kids play date with Legos?
I agree, loud music would not be appropriate for that! Everyone knows Legos don’t have ears. 😜

bc6152

Hmmm. No, no Legos...

UltraLux22

Lexus should really think about creating a NYC EDITION of the ML audio complete with rumbler siren setting. That’d be a hit at your next block party! I’m bringing Hot Fries and
pasta salad. Let’s do it!

GoOil97

I had a Mazda 6 GT with the Bose surround system. It was great. Loved the car. But sold it and bought my 2022 ES 350 F Sport with the ML sound system. No comparison. The Lexus is far better. Clearer, crisper sounds better in “noisy” conditions (hwy, rough roads, etc). For that price difference the Lexus is a no brainer. The Mazda will likely give you better city gas mileage, but I get better hwy gas mileage in my Lexus. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Mazda fan, have owned them for 20 years, my parents and wife have a CX-5, but the Lexus is more refined, powerful, smoother and like the Mazda 6 has really low maintenance costs too!