FreddyG

I guess that You're right in that it all depends on what We're using as point of reference.

I'd like to know the answer to this too just to satisfy my curiosity. I guess that We could find out if We knew the parts numbers for each part and compare them.

peteharvey

If someone could supply the VIN/chassis number of the Luxury/UL versus F Sport Design trims- with the "same" type of engine eg 250 or 300h or 350 - then we could see if the part numbers are the same or different.

Ltvscout

Here's the VIN from my 2019 that I traded in:
58ABZ1B15KU044764

peteharvey

Ltvscout has posted his 2019 ES350 Luxury trim’s VIN.
Anyone wish to post their 2019 ES350 F Sport Design trim’s VIN?

grp52

You could do a search for that model year type for sale. For example, here's a CARMAX 2019 Lexus ES 350 F-Sport for sale with a listed VIN.

peteharvey

Interesting.
Complicated!
Based on 2019 ES350 V6.

The front:​​​​​​
The ES350 range is available in two different front roll bars: one for non-F Sport, and the other for the F Sports!
The ES350 range shares the one pair of front coils!
The ES350 range has two different pairs of front shock absorbers: one for F Sport Handling with AVS, and the other for the rest of the ES350 range.

The rear:
All trims use the one rear roll bar ancross the ES350 range.
All trims use the one rear pair of coil springs in left & right across the 350 engine range.
However, across the 350 engine range, the ES350 comes in three different rear shock absorbers: standard, F Sport Design and F Sport Handling with AVS!

Overall:
F Sport Design adds: thicker front roll bar, and firmer rear non-AVS shock absorbers.
F Sport Handling further adds: front AVS shock absorbers, and rear AVS shock absorbers.

Hence, the F Sport Design trim is a little firmer than the Luxury & Ultra Luxury trims - in the 3.5L V6 anyway.
Not to forget that the F Sport trims have 19” wheels with sports tires on top.

PS
Thanks to its AVS electronic variable valve shock absorbers, the F Sport Handling package may both handle and actually ride more smoothly & comfortably than the F Sport Design package that I loaned so many times???

https://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts-...=GSZ10L-BEZGBA)

https://www.lexuspartsnow.com/parts-...=GSZ10L-BEZGBA)

grp52

Big clarification to the terminology you're using for a 2019 ES 350 F Sport.

F Sport Design and F Sport Handling applies only to 2023 model year F Sport model types.

For 2022 and prior model years "F Sport" is the only model type terminology used. The AVS equipped distinguisher between F Sport models for those model years was/is whether or not the vehicle has a "F Sport Dynamic Handling Package". Those with the package has it; those without don't.

Based on the way you've presented your findings, it looks to me like you've researched the parts used in 2023 F Sport model types which may not necessarily be the same parts used in the 2019 ES 350 F Sport model type you were looking for a VIN for comparison.

FreddyG

Thanks Pete for doing the leg work! I Appreciate it!

From my understanding of automotive suspensions, the springs are what makes the cars ride stiffness. The shocks are there to stop the springs from bouncing and the valving determines how aggressively or passively they do their job. In a coil over or race car type suspension, this can be set by being able to adjust compression and rebound, which I'd guess is how the adjustable shocks work. In performance driving, I'd think that the rebound has more effect while in a comfort setting, I'd guess compression was more important. This is just my opinion and thoughts and could be completely wrong and if so, someone Please correct me.

My thoughts on sway bars is that they might have some effect on the springs but I'd think that it's minimal since they do their work when the car starts to go into a yaw transition. The sway bars help to keep this under control and can also help to control how your car handles as far as over or under steering. They can tune this to how You and Your car drive.

I'd also guess that You're correct in that the tires and wheel sizes/compounds/type/whatever has an effect on the ride too. More tire usually means more comfortable while less tire means a firmer/stiffer ride. Ours has the stock 18" wheels on Her (for now because I don't like the looks of the stock/OEM wheels) but plan to change them to a lighter, better looking 18" wheel in the future if We keep Her.

My Wife likes the RAV4 Hybrid and We might jump ship to Toyota. We might also look at a Lexus NX350 but I doubt they ride any better than the ES350. I don't have enough seat time to know yet but it's just a test drive away.

peteharvey

Thanks for pointing that out.
Fortunately, the difference is only in terminology.
The suspension parts are still per se.

These two links for 2019 ES350 front and rear suspension.
Front Spring & Shock Absorber - 2019 Lexus ES350 (lexuspartsnow.com)
Rear Spring & Shock Absorber - 2019 Lexus ES350 (lexuspartsnow.com)

These two links for 2022 ES350 front and rear suspension:
Front Spring & Shock Absorber - 2022 Lexus ES350 (lexuspartsnow.com)
Rear Spring & Shock Absorber - 2022 Lexus ES350 (lexuspartsnow.com)

The original 2019 ES350 used K20 front coil springs from August 2018 to January 2021.
From February 2021 onwards, the 2022 ES350 switched to K21 front coil springs.

Shock absorbers more complicated. The 2022 ES350 seems to have so many different variations of shock absorbers.

2022 ES350 used the same F Sport and non-F Sport front roll bars across the range as the original 2019 ES350.


I've had many NX loaners.
Unfortunately, the new NX is just as firm, if not firmer than the ES.
Worse, the NX has a higher center of gravity on a shorter wheelbase - resulting in a lot of pitching back and forth, and jiggling side to side - resulting in a tiring ride.
Worse still, I find that the NX has noticeably more wind and road noise than the ES - somehow the ES seems to use thicker glass and much more floor insulation than the NX.

ATL350

I think the NX is aimed at a younger demographic who grew up mostly only knowing that cars rode hard. This is part of how Lexus was shifted to get younger buyers and have tailored the models accordingly. Even the ES was affected in this current iteration, probably the firmest riding ES for years (certainly firmer than my two previous models). That's also how the seats firmer up, sometimes to the point of discomfort (some makers seem to finally be changing that and adding more padding again). It's all evident in their advertising and catalogues, with F Sport featured every where, young drivers zipping around, etc. Nothing wrong with that in the general sense, but this represents Toyota having allowed to become "just another car" without the emphasis in its early years on comfort, safety, quality experience, etc.

LexFinally

I wouldn't be quite that sweeping about it. I think Toyota and Lexus remain equally dedicated to quality in both the product and the experience. It's just that younger buyers care more than people my age about style and sporty demeanor, and Lexus can't afford to watch its customers age and die off like yesterday's Buick.

FreddyG

Thank You for your review and opinion of the NX. I Appreciate that a bunch because that might just take it off our list of automobiles that We might be interested in.

ATL350

I didn’t mean to imply that they no longer maintain good quality, I just meant it’s no longer a selling point they advertise. I should have been clearer on that point.

I also get your point about the desires of younger drivers. I fault Toyota, however, for not differentiating their models better. Certainly the sporty market is huge and they have the IS/UX/NX they can sell with that focus, the RX able to go both ways in a lot of regards. The ES was meant to be an entry level luxury car with comfort and quiet and big selling points, something they barely mention anymore. The LS can straddle that line as well, somewhat, as so
me other brands have done, although even the top BMW 7 series is no longer anyone’s definition of sport as they have gone full plush albeit with edgy design.

Now Toyota is trying to sell to both older drivers or those who have come to prefer more comfort over performance and younger demographics with the F Sport which, while admired by many ES buyers perhaps still is pretty watered down in the performance area for which it gets put down by the automotive press.

oh well, just my thoughts

LexFinally

I get it. It kinda drives me nuts that BMW has 90% lost the faith for enthusiast drivers, yet gets away with coasting on its laurels and having it both ways with plush, isolated cars that satisfy badge wh0res as the vast majority of their sales now. I guess Lexus simply lacks the performance heritage to sell non-performance cars as performance cars.

Personally, I cringe every time I see that current ES commercial where an anorexic 20-year-old fashion model pretends to spray paint an ES with a Wagner gun. I think it's an intelligence-insulting, pandering embarrassment. But then, I'm not its target audience.

ATL350

I agree, that commercial is cringeworthy. But it does beg the question... what precisely IS its target audience for the ES? As I posted else where Lexus has more youth oriented models (or which can be equipped so) like the IS/UX/NX even the RX, but the ES just doesn't fit that mold at all and was never meant to. Even the F Sport package or trim (the look without the discomfort) is really meant for an older demographic, average age in the mid-60's, who wants some memory of their more fun days but still with stretch out room and more comfort. There's nothing wrong with either market segment, but trying to blend them doesn't work. The older buyers do still buy a lot of cars but the ES may drop off that shopping list if they continue down the path of making even the luxury variants too firm and uncomfortable. But we are a youth obsessed culture, to the point of insanity sometimes.