Features in the non-US 7ES that we don't get in the US
06-25-23, 08:25 AM
#16
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Lexus deliberately omits ES options and features in North America (I think) because they want you to upgrade to an LS (more profit for them). In many markets the LS is too big or not available so in those cases they offer more features in the ES.
As a previous LS500 owner, that is one of my pet peeves. I prefer the size of the ES but I would love to have the massaging seat from my LS in my ES. I find it annoying that you *have* to buy the physically bigger car to get more luxury, here anyway.
As a previous LS500 owner, that is one of my pet peeves. I prefer the size of the ES but I would love to have the massaging seat from my LS in my ES. I find it annoying that you *have* to buy the physically bigger car to get more luxury, here anyway.
06-25-23, 10:10 AM
#17
To be fair thr 7ES added more interior luxury materials and design and exterior LS design cues this generation. I think it’s because they knew the GS was going away plus they sell so few LS they knew the ES had to march upstream a bit to do well.
Few people shopping for a new ES would spend double to get an LS I think.
I don’t know that I love my ES but I do like it a lot. My LS430 though was amazing.
Few people shopping for a new ES would spend double to get an LS I think.
I don’t know that I love my ES but I do like it a lot. My LS430 though was amazing.
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LexFinally (06-26-23),
UltraLux22 (06-28-23)
06-25-23, 10:27 AM
#18
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
https://www.lexus.eu/discover-lexus/.../lexus-nanoe-x
I have it both on my ES and RX.
I have it both on my ES and RX.
06-25-23, 12:21 PM
#19
They have to load it up with all these goodies because they need to brake the ice in this class. It is very hard to sell the ES to a german person with no special options.
06-26-23, 09:14 AM
#20
Camry gets a lot of these same features too. Camry in Asia gets the rear seat controls etc. It also gets sunshades in back.
Skip to 5 min.
here's what ES gets:
Skip to 5 min.
here's what ES gets:
06-26-23, 09:44 AM
#21
My guess is that Lexus product planners are somewhat independent of Toyota's when you get down to the details like which features will be standard, optional, and offered only in some markets.
The ES group apparently decided at the start of this generation that they were going to pull back on some features in the US to stay as close as they could to the prevous gen's price points stripped and loaded, which they pretty much did.
The Avalon group decided they needed some luxury-car features not available on US-spec Camrys to make the upsell, like acoustic front side windows and heated rear seats. They may not even have realized, or at least cared, what the ES group was doing -- it's a different group, to them a different market segment, and generally not their problem.
Of course, the people who end up seeing the big-picture result are us, the customers.
As for ride comfort, I personally agree that even the base/Luxury version of the car is just a bit stiff for its mission. But looking at this through Lexus's lens, the average age of this car's buyers (like, ahem, me) is rising alarmingly high from a business planning perspective -- and unlike Buick, Toyota doesn't answer mostly to impatient US stock market investment funds and therefore takes the long view of its business. Younger buyers want better handling, a stiffer chassis, and will tolerate a slightly stiffer ride than us. So when Lexus went to the more rigid and frankly much overdue and improved architecture for the '19, that's the ride we got.
And speaking for myself at least, truth be told: On the whole spectrum of today's new cars, in truth it still rides really well. And although I wish it handled even better than the improved behavior of the 7th gen (the V6/AWD combination we can't have would have helped), I wasn't willing to forfeit any more ride comfort to get it. Yes, the greater supension sophistication of the Germans is what would give us the best of both worlds. But using a family car chassis to deliver better price/value than any direct competitor has always been the deal with the devil that every ES buyer accepts. It's been thus for 30 years, and I think it's a more agreeable trade-off now than ever.
The ES group apparently decided at the start of this generation that they were going to pull back on some features in the US to stay as close as they could to the prevous gen's price points stripped and loaded, which they pretty much did.
The Avalon group decided they needed some luxury-car features not available on US-spec Camrys to make the upsell, like acoustic front side windows and heated rear seats. They may not even have realized, or at least cared, what the ES group was doing -- it's a different group, to them a different market segment, and generally not their problem.
Of course, the people who end up seeing the big-picture result are us, the customers.
As for ride comfort, I personally agree that even the base/Luxury version of the car is just a bit stiff for its mission. But looking at this through Lexus's lens, the average age of this car's buyers (like, ahem, me) is rising alarmingly high from a business planning perspective -- and unlike Buick, Toyota doesn't answer mostly to impatient US stock market investment funds and therefore takes the long view of its business. Younger buyers want better handling, a stiffer chassis, and will tolerate a slightly stiffer ride than us. So when Lexus went to the more rigid and frankly much overdue and improved architecture for the '19, that's the ride we got.
And speaking for myself at least, truth be told: On the whole spectrum of today's new cars, in truth it still rides really well. And although I wish it handled even better than the improved behavior of the 7th gen (the V6/AWD combination we can't have would have helped), I wasn't willing to forfeit any more ride comfort to get it. Yes, the greater supension sophistication of the Germans is what would give us the best of both worlds. But using a family car chassis to deliver better price/value than any direct competitor has always been the deal with the devil that every ES buyer accepts. It's been thus for 30 years, and I think it's a more agreeable trade-off now than ever.
Last edited by LexFinally; 06-26-23 at 09:53 AM.
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06-26-23, 10:54 AM
#22
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
In the end, these distinct groups got it right in my case. I don't really need the backseat stuff, and in the end I'd rather not pay for it. Still, I think backseat center console controls are pimp, and I would have paid for the nanoe filter if the option isn't ludicrously expensive (it probably is though). It's still primarily a car for me. Nevertheless, I'm sad that they aren't available here.
06-26-23, 02:12 PM
#23
Back seat stuff seems really emphasized and important in places like Asia. even 3 series and c class get long wheel base versions in asia.
06-26-23, 03:17 PM
#24
No mystery why: In Asia, owners of upscale cars don't drive, they ride in the back. There's a reason the new ES was introduced in 2018 in Nashville and Shanghai concurrently, and had more rear legroom than any previous ES.
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ATL350 (06-26-23)
06-26-23, 09:32 PM
#25
[QUOTE=LexFinally;11531355.
As for ride comfort, I personally agree that even the base/Luxury version of the car is just a bit stiff for its mission. But looking at this through Lexus's lens, the average age of this car's buyers (like, ahem, me) is rising alarmingly high from a business planning perspective -- and unlike Buick, Toyota doesn't answer mostly to impatient US stock market investment funds and therefore takes the long view of its business. Younger buyers want better handling, a stiffer chassis, and will tolerate a slightly stiffer ride than us. So when Lexus went to the more rigid and frankly much overdue and improved architecture for the '19, that's the ride we got.
And speaking for myself at least, truth be told: On the whole spectrum of today's new cars, in truth it still rides really well. And although I wish it handled even better than the improved behavior of the 7th gen (the V6/AWD combination we can't have would have helped), I wasn't willing to forfeit any more ride comfort to get it. Yes, the greater supension sophistication of the Germans is what would give us the best of both worlds. But using a family car chassis to deliver better price/value than any direct competitor has always been the deal with the devil that every ES buyer accepts. It's been thus for 30 years, and I think it's a more agreeable trade-off now than ever.[/QUOTE]
Great post. I do think though that if you set aside those younger drivers who truly want a sportier ride/handling car, many others accept stiff seats and ride because that’s all they know. They grew up with cars that rode firmly and have been repeatedly told by the automotive press and manufacturers that stiffness is somehow better, safer, whatever. But put some of those same younger drivers in a cushier riding car and they are actually amazed at how comfortable a car can ride. They frequently really like it. “This is so comfortable. You feel every little thing in my car.” (I’ve had younger friends tell me that.)
So will any of that matter to the manufacturers? I think to an extent, yes. We are seeing more cars that seem to be coming with much smoother rides than say ten years ago, or offering complex adjustable or air suspensions to still give performance of some degree but without punishing the driver and riders. They wouldn’t be investing millions in such development if there wasn’t some realization that there is a market out there for it, a pretty big one in my opinion. Plus, those younger drivers will age too and the ride that felt cool at 20 kills your back at 40!
As for ride comfort, I personally agree that even the base/Luxury version of the car is just a bit stiff for its mission. But looking at this through Lexus's lens, the average age of this car's buyers (like, ahem, me) is rising alarmingly high from a business planning perspective -- and unlike Buick, Toyota doesn't answer mostly to impatient US stock market investment funds and therefore takes the long view of its business. Younger buyers want better handling, a stiffer chassis, and will tolerate a slightly stiffer ride than us. So when Lexus went to the more rigid and frankly much overdue and improved architecture for the '19, that's the ride we got.
And speaking for myself at least, truth be told: On the whole spectrum of today's new cars, in truth it still rides really well. And although I wish it handled even better than the improved behavior of the 7th gen (the V6/AWD combination we can't have would have helped), I wasn't willing to forfeit any more ride comfort to get it. Yes, the greater supension sophistication of the Germans is what would give us the best of both worlds. But using a family car chassis to deliver better price/value than any direct competitor has always been the deal with the devil that every ES buyer accepts. It's been thus for 30 years, and I think it's a more agreeable trade-off now than ever.[/QUOTE]
Great post. I do think though that if you set aside those younger drivers who truly want a sportier ride/handling car, many others accept stiff seats and ride because that’s all they know. They grew up with cars that rode firmly and have been repeatedly told by the automotive press and manufacturers that stiffness is somehow better, safer, whatever. But put some of those same younger drivers in a cushier riding car and they are actually amazed at how comfortable a car can ride. They frequently really like it. “This is so comfortable. You feel every little thing in my car.” (I’ve had younger friends tell me that.)
So will any of that matter to the manufacturers? I think to an extent, yes. We are seeing more cars that seem to be coming with much smoother rides than say ten years ago, or offering complex adjustable or air suspensions to still give performance of some degree but without punishing the driver and riders. They wouldn’t be investing millions in such development if there wasn’t some realization that there is a market out there for it, a pretty big one in my opinion. Plus, those younger drivers will age too and the ride that felt cool at 20 kills your back at 40!
06-27-23, 10:03 AM
#26
I do think though that if you set aside those younger drivers who truly want a sportier ride/handling car, many others accept stiff seats and ride because that’s all they know. They grew up with cars that rode firmly and have been repeatedly told by the automotive press and manufacturers that stiffness is somehow better, safer, whatever. But put some of those same younger drivers in a cushier riding car and they are actually amazed at how comfortable a car can ride. They frequently really like it. “This is so comfortable. You feel every little thing in my car.” (I’ve had younger friends tell me that.)
I do think we elders sometimes overrate the continued impact of the buff books. For the younger audience, they hardly exist anymore. It's probably the YouTube reviewers who are playing the same role now. To their credit, some of the more responsible ones like Savagegeese and Alex on Autos don't push the "stiffer is better" narrative. Savagegeese in particular has been very generous in his praise of the ES, particularly the non-F Sport version, as recognizing that softness is appropriate to its mission.
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ATL350 (06-28-23)
06-28-23, 05:00 AM
#28
I would like to see the difference in carpet thickness between the UAE and US model.
06-28-23, 06:56 AM
#29
The next time I will go to the car wash, I will remove the pic of the carpet. I do not have the US version to show the comparison. However, someone on this forum had posted the link for the carpet in the UAE.
06-28-23, 08:14 AM
#30
Are we talking about the floor mats?