Gazza74

Hi everyone,

I'm looking to purchase a new vehicle, and taking a long hard look at the ES. I'd probably go for the Luxury due to a couple of nice options like acoustic glass, ML stereo, and 12.3 inch infotainment screen. Where I'm struggling is whether to go for the hybrid or V6.

Currently I commute to work 3 times per week @ 40 miles round trip in mostly stop and go traffic, with weekend short drives to the grocery store, restaurants, etc. Maybe twice a month I'll take a longer drive of about 50-80 miles, and twice a year I'll go on a 200 mile round trip. As you can see I' probably drive 8k - 10k miles per year max.

I'm struggling with liking the idea of the hybrid but also liking the additional power the V6 provides. Given my mileage, would the hybrid be worth it? I keep my vehicles 10-11 years, and that could be the time where a new battery is needed, and I've also heard (not verified) that maintenance is a little bit more expensive. The V6 on the other hand would likely be good even if I kept it longer.

I'd appreciate any advice / observations that would help me make a decision.

Thanks!

cbus

I am speaking from my experience of driving hybrid vs. ICE vehicles in general here. The hybrids always sound like sewing machines under acceleration in which the ICE kicks in. Don't like that. NVH is important to me.

In your use case, sounds like you'd see lots of efficiency gains in a hybrid (40mi 3x week, stop-and-go). It's a matter of what's important to you. They're both nice and comfy cars, but what else about the experience do you weigh heavily?

Gazza74

Reliability is very important to me, which is why I ended up at Lexus. Comfort is also important.

Initially I wanted a compact SUV, and came close to getting an X3. The thought of potential expensive issues down the road put me off, and I've cycled through several vehicles. The NX is a tad too small for my needs, and while the RX is really nice (I drove the 2023 350 and liked it), equipped the way I want they end up being $60k+ OTD. I'm trying to stay at ~ $50k. I looked at the Acura RDX, and size, comfort and zippyness are nice, but I'm a bit worried about overall quality. Therefore, with the RX out, I looked at the ES which meets the comfort and reliability levels I'm looking for. If the ES350 got a bit better mpg in the city it would be a no-brainer. As it is, it may be the way to go anyway.

cbus

Speaking anecdotally here, but Toyota hybrids seem to be very reliable. I still see the occasional 1st-gen Prius, and a ton of RAV4/Camry/etc hybrids daily. Toyota nailed hybrid tech a long time ago.

Gazza74

You're right - lots of older Toyota Hybrids still on the road. Given most of my miles are stop and go, using 44mpg for the hybrid and 22mpg for the V6, at the gas prices in my area I'm looking at $650 per year in gas savings.

FlyerScott

I went through the same process just recently. I was trying to decide between the 2024 Ultra Luxury ES 350 and the 2024 Ultra Luxury ES 300h. I test drove both and decided on the 300h really for one reason only, the size of the gas tank and the range between fill ups. I don't really care about the millage, I don't drive that much where the savings money wise is significant, however the tank on the 300h gives over 500 miles in range vs the 350's 350 or so mile range. As for sportiness I really didn't buy the ES for that, though I find it drives very similar to my 2008 ES 350, I really don't notice much if any difference.

As for reliability, the hybrid system is warranted for 10 years and 150K miles. I did look at what a battery costs if I needed one after that, and it appears that aftermarket companies can put a new battery in for <$3K. However I rather doubt that will happen, Toyota has been a leader in the hybrid world for a long time, but if it does then I'll have to deal with it then. It's possible that the gas savings will add up, though I rather doubt it.

That all being said I do love the car.

Gazza74

Thanks for that perspective. The warranty is comforting, as is the estimate for a new battery.

FlyerScott

I would test drive both. I did find they had a lot more of the non hybrid cars available, and had to drive a bit to get what I wanted.

ESh

Personally I got the hybrid, and I would do the same again.
If you ask me, go and take both for a spin. See for yourself.

Gazza74

Already did, although to be honest about a month and a half apart. I also had driven the RX the same day as the ES350, and on the day I drove the ES300h I also drove an Acura RDX. My perspectives are probably a little off because I did not notice any lag on the hybrid once you reach top gear that I've read others mention with the hybrid, and I also did not notice any jerkiness on the ES350 that I've also heard.

I'm going through a broker since my surrounding dealers are not willing to move off their price with b/s add-ons like nitrogen filled tires, so I can get about 8% off this way.

ESh

If you are happy with 218 ponies of the hybrid, if you want more refined car, more reliable, 44 mpg that can be achieved without any effort, quietness and more isolation, go for the hybrid. If you want more harshness and 308 HP...

Gazza74

Based on your experience, is there anything about the acceleration, passing on the highway, or cruising that you dislike?

93SCMax

Can I ask who's your broker in SC? I've been looking at the ES300h for some time, checking inventory and dealer costs/add-on's at multiple dealers in SC, NC and GA. 2023 inventory is about gone, and the incoming 2024's are loaded with dealer add-on's even though they haven't arrived. If I could find a way to get 8% off, not be forced to take add-on options I don't want, my decision to buy would happen faster. I'm willing to wait and continue driving my 3rd Gen GS350, but I'd like to get into a new Lexus/Toyota before the 2025 model year.

scubapr

I went through the same process just a few days ago. There is no substitute for testing yourself (period). The best advice is to try both at as long as you can/allowed. If necessary go back and try several times/days. Don't be afraid to say that you're just here to try it; and that if you like it, you'll come by at another time/day to start the purchase process. They will always try to sell you on the spot with some excuse of limited inventory, offer or any other sale tactic. Be firm and clear from the beginning that you only there to test and compare with another model on that day.

About the 350 vs 300h. The 350 definitely has a lot more punch/power than the 300h (no comparison there). If you push the 350 pedal all the way down from stand still, the wheels will spin. What surprised me about the 300h is that when you turn it on there is no engine starting sound. You're just ready to drive. It feels much quieter (if you don't accelerate hard) than the 350. In SPORT mode it has plenty of low end torque if you tap the accelerator pedal lightly. So in (stop/go) traffic the power feels very good compared to the 350. Toyota's hybrid system is very reliable and the warranty back it up. I have also read that there is no starter and the brakes last much more longer than the 350.

In my case the difference from the 350 to the 300h (both luxury) was only $1k more for the H. And I got them to lower it to the same. So in the end I decided on the 300h. I do mostly city driving, so gas mileage should be significant compared to the 350. Finally I don't see myself needing/missing all the power of the 350. If the 350 had been available in blue I probably would have gone for that. But you really have to try them both again B2B to decide.

ESh

For me it has plenty of power. I don't race, I never drive over the speed limit so 218 HP is more than enough. I drive it in ECO mode and to be honest it is slow to respond, but COMFORT mode, especially SPORT mode have more than enough punch. I also have the 5ES 350 with 272 HP and I think the ESh pulls better on low end when on Sport mode. Also, the 350 has too much power for the FWD system and you will never be able to put them all on the road without fighting with the steering wheel.