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Because I can't help myself I have some JBL 6.5" speakers on the way, same style as the 3.5" I have. I'm accumulating a pile of speakers at this point, literally.
Add me to the list then, ML is very underwhelming.
There is no LIST but many possible reasons for poor sound. If you are listening to mp3's or compressed music that could impact the sound. Also, not everyone has the same settings. I only stream from Tidal or Qobuz and am very happy with the sound considering this is a car environment. Sure, there are some better premium sound systems in other brands but overall, the sound is very good once it's dialed in. Even some of the better professional car reviewers gave this sound system high marks despite them not being experts. You will NEVER be able to get a consensus on this or for anything in the forums. If you don't like it you can change out the system or sell your car. Everything is a tradeoff.
mp3 vs lossless is not going to make the difference between great and poor sound. Perceptual coding might make the track seem a bit lifeless, "hissy" etc. but it doesn't change the general dynamics of the stereo. You can easily test this take a track and encode it to mp3 with various quality settings see how low you can go before you hear a difference. This is a simple program to encode if you want to test things out https://www.freac.org/downloads-main.../362-freac-117
You'll find that at 128 kbps and above and the quality is near indistinguishable from the lossless version.
mp3 vs lossless is not going to make the difference between great and poor sound. Perceptual coding might make the track seem a bit lifeless, "hissy" etc. but it doesn't change the general dynamics of the stereo. You can easily test this take a track and encode it to mp3 with various quality settings see how low you can go before you hear a difference. This is a simple program to encode if you want to test things out https://www.freac.org/downloads-main.../362-freac-117
You'll find that at 128 kbps and above and the quality is near indistinguishable from the lossless version.
Sorry BUT every bit helps and since I use Tidal for my home system it's a no brainer even though the ML system is limited to what it can decode. The SOURCE music will be one of the most important factors but even with that this is a noisy car! Been doing this for decades and don't need a lecture or education on how this works. Enjoy your ML system or not!
To tell the difference between lossy vs lossless is very dependent on the sound equipment, listening volume and how familiar you are with the song; assuming the original recording source is a high quality recording. On my main system I can distinguish between <= 256kbps vs lossless with a very good degree of accuracy. On my PC/desktop system with my small monitors I could discern only if I listen several times. Between 320kbps and lossless it is much more difficult even with a dedicated equipment and high quality speakers.
Before purchasing the car, I took a jumpdrive with lossless music (FLAC) using songs that I am extremely familiar on my dedicated home system. The Lexus ML system sounded very good compared to the base system. But the one I liked the most was the Acura ELS system which sounded a little superior to the ML with a much clearer bass. However, neither of them compared to my dedicated home system. It's very difficult to re-create a sound-stage and imaging in a car audio system. However, if you have a trained ear and are familiar with the music it becomes easier to discern between lossy vs lossless by looking for the sounds of instruments such as guitar, cymbals and voices.
I agree with the OP that the main flaw in the ML system is that the speakers are not very high quality. The speakers are what transmit the sound we hear. I can attest that a good DAC, amplifier and source system is of no use if the speakers are not good. However, good speakers make a difference even if you have intermediate equipment.
At least, even on my dedicated team, can't discern 100% between 320 vs lossless. At some point I'm going to do the experiment on my Lexus ML but I don't think I'll have a better result than on my dedicated home system.
As users took the quiz, we collected anonymous results* of the quiz so we could see how our audience performed. The high-level summary: On average, our users did slightly better than guessing randomly. As a whole, users correctly identified the lossless WAV file 36.0 percent of the time. Guessing randomly, because there were three choices to choose from, would have users identifying the WAV correctly 33.3 percent of the time. Given the size of our sample, we can say that the difference is statistically significant. So congratulations, you are better than a random number generator at identifying lossless audio, but only slightly.
That is so close to being perfectly random. 1.6% chose the lossless version every time sign those people up for audio engineers.
If I have the time next weekend, I'll try see how to output from my laptop to the ML system and run some sweeps with REW on my 300h. Then compare FR of MP3 128-320kbps vs FLAC using the RTA. Should be fun!
We've all heard (and we've all heard) that one big weakness of the current ES's sound system, base or ML, is that they deleted some rear speaker openings in a cheapout move. The obvious result is that all the sound seems to come from the front. This is less than optimal for some listeners, including me.
The only way to address that, short of major surgery to add speakers, would seem to be a boost in output from the rear door speakers. I get that OP replaced all his speakers with aftermarket ones that sound better. My question is, can the rear door speakers be replaced (short of also adding new amps) with rear door speakers that sound LOUDER? And if you could do so, would it help?
This can be done to an extent install front speakers with significantly lower efficiency than the rear. Or put in resistors although I can't say how this will affect sound never tried.
How much power do you estimate is going from the ML amp to the sub?
Well, the secondary amp is going to negate or absorb any power from the ML amp when it processes and amplifies the signal to the sub, so I don't think this is a critical point.
Originally Posted by LeX2K
mp3 vs lossless is not going to make the difference between great and poor sound. Perceptual coding might make the track seem a bit lifeless, "hissy" etc. but it doesn't change the general dynamics of the stereo. You can easily test this take a track and encode it to mp3 with various quality settings see how low you can go before you hear a difference. This is a simple program to encode if you want to test things out https://www.freac.org/downloads-main.../362-freac-117
You'll find that at 128 kbps and above and the quality is near indistinguishable from the lossless version.
My exact experience unfortunately. I spent a great deal of time replacing nearly my entire music library with FLAC, which was previously all MP3 and WMA only to experience no difference in sound quality. I wanted to feel a difference but just couldn't, no matter how I adjusted the EQ. That's when I decided to bite the bullet and replace the small speakers. That did the trick.
Originally Posted by carsareus
Honestly VERY FEW people have complained about the ML system and most people like it. The complaints came from the stock basic system in the ES.
Totally agree. Before I made any changes, even before transferring the JBL BassPro nano's under the front seats, I had several passengers complimenting the system. I use my ES to drive Uber and lot of passengers like to play their own music on Friday and Saturday nights when they're headed to the bars and clubs. I think I had three different passengers ask if I had installed an aftermarket system or asked what car I was driving because they were impressed by the system (yes, they're often drunk and don't even know what kind of car they're getting in beforehand).
Now - passengers are borderline blown away. The last passengers to comment came from the Park City Music Summit one night where Bobby Weir was playing. Picked up a bunch of dead heads that night . They blasted Peggy O, Live from Palladium 1977 (
09-21-23, 06:19 PM
. They blasted Peggy O, Live from Palladium 1977 (
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