LexFinally

I wouldn't read much into that. The picture also contained a car that turned out to be virtually identical to the new RX, except for the grille. I think they simply withheld one detail from the picture in order to not give everything away.

Shaboom

Agreed. But check out the You Tube 4 day old videos on new Camry. The grill on the sport model is, I betcha’, what we’ll see on the new ES 350.

july1988

It will be a big surprise, especially after the 2024 Camry recent reveal, if the 2025 ES will have a V6 ES350

They have been testing the v4 turbo engine for 10 years now (on NX and UX etc.) and I think that engine is proven to be pretty good at this point.

I think 99% at this point the 2025 ES will have the similar engines and trims as in the RX, which are v4 turbo gas (they will call it ES 350) and v4 non-turbo hybrid (ES 300H), with AWD available on all trims (yayyy LOL), minus the plug-in hybrid trim (450H+) and the 500H F-sport typed trim because these 2 trims make no sense on an ES sedan. F-sport packages will probably remain available for all ES350 and 300H, they may have a special F-sport black edition down on the line...

Shaboom

Your guess on when——end of calendar 2024 or into calendar 2025?

july1988

It should be introduced in Fall 2024 and available at dealers to buy probably early 2025 (pre-covid, it's usually available in FALL, but things have changed now for worse LOL)

There is maybe a possibility, because of the EV trend, supply issues resulted from Covid, current economic, US Gov. regulations on EV and tax credits, and such, Lexus may delay the next gen. ES till somewhere in 2025, as 2026 model year. If this the case, I'm pretty sure it will be 100% hybrid, maybe with a plug-in trim, as Toyota/Lexus aim for having all vehicles to be hybrid or EV by 2030.

dklanecky1

Do you mean i-4 engine? i don't recall Toyota making any V-4 engine?

july1988

yeah whatever it called, it's a 4 cylinder engine that they put on the current NX and RX

I think Lexus has no choice but has to go with that smaller 2.4L 4-cylinder engine to stay complied with energy efficiency regulations from the Gov, especially on a small car. I mean if the engine gives you the same power as in V-6 while spends less on fuel, it's no brainer.

I'm pretty sure if they can have a choice, they'll def. keep the V6 as an option.

LexFinally

I'm no expert on this stuff, but it sounds like the turbo 4 isn't meaningfully more powerful or economical than the V6 it's replacing. If what I've been reading is correct, the driver seems to be emissions rather than gas mileage laws.

ATL350

I think that’s generally true. Smaller engines should produce better mileage (not always especially when they’re tuned to accelerate faster) but also generally produce less tailpipe emissions.

People need to remember that it’s not just US regulations doing this, but global requirements including from the EU. Given the volumes involved, the car companies want to make global architecture and systems with as few deviations per individual country as possible. Sure, they have to make some accommodations as regulations do differ, but if they can standardize things like emissions to suit as many regulatory bodies as possible they’ll do it, which is what we’re seeing in part. They’ve spent vast amounts of money to make these smaller engines provide more power than ever, even if we don’t like the sound or feel of them. But that’s the direction the auto world is moving in.

BBQapple

“minus the plug-in hybrid trim (450H+) and the 500H F-sport typed trim because these 2 trims make no sense on an ES sedan”

Why do you say that?

Id buy an ES450h+ and so would many people. The RAV4 Prime and NX450h+ and Prius prime are in very high demand and experiencing markups.

rainjacket

My dream car is basically an ultra luxury ES with a much more powerful hybrid engine.

july1988

Historically, statistically and logically I'd say.

The hybrid ES (and Camry) has been here for almost 15-20 years, never been a plug-in version.

ES (and Camry) is the best selling sedan, for last 10 -15 years, one of the reason is its reasonable price range and options, year by year, gen. by gen. they made very conservative changes because why would they dramatically change something that is working perfectly fine at the top? The $55K MSRP fully loaded ES300H gives me 45MPG and proven to be a perfect car that I can buy right now, why would I pay $65K and wait 12 months to get a ES450H+, yeah I'm pretty sure there are like 5000 people would buy, but not worth it for Lexus.

The reason they have NX450h+ plug-in is because they have the RAV4 prime, and vise versa, in other words they can use the same exact structure and parts for both vehicles, they also probably re-use a lot of that for the RX450+ as well. We don't see the Camry plug-in hybrid version yet, until that, most likely will be no ES PHVE.

As far as ES F-sport 500H version, nobody will pay $65K+ for this even if Lexus make one LOL, regular F-sport packages will do.

july1988

Dream no more, they have already made the LS Hybrid since 2018 LOL

FreddyG

I like the Signia and am actually interested in seeing one when they come out. It looks considerably better than the Venza (my opinion).

rainjacket

The ES is sort of a Lexus Camry but it's not the same car in the way the NX and RAV-4 are, right? And for example Crown Platinum *does* have a 340hp hybrid max option. There may also be an eventual sportier Camry later, it's very possible that the new Camry was designed around the possibility of some bigger engine option in the future.