Shaboom

Has anyone read whether Lexus will be putting Automatic Stop/Start in their 2025 models? Does the 2025 Camry line have it?
I walked away from buying a beautiful BMW and went Lexus instead because I’m annoyed by A.S.S. and I fear it puts wear and tear on the engine—-all that stopping and starting all day. I know most can be turned off each time you manually turn off the engine and then start again. But even then you have to deal with daily. Some say there’s a way to disable it but dealers decline to do it because it’s prohibited.

F3Woody

Two main reasons I bought this car when comparing to others: V6 engine and NO stop/start engine. Seems like we're part of a dying breed of sorts and I wanted to grab one while I could.

dezymond

Auto start stop outside of a hybrid power train still doesn't make sense to me. Car brands have really ironed it out in terms of smoothness, but the gains from start/stop in traditional ICE cars isn't too impactful on mpg, which is the point.

All 2025 Camrys are going to be a hybrid powertrain so start/stop will be in there. So I think future ES will all be hybrid as well. Currently own a 22' 300h and love it. Don't really miss my old V6 at all except for the engine noise it made.

Shaboom

Exactly my thinking and same as my decision to buy a new one in 2021. Considering buying one of the last ones made at end of 2024.

scubapr

I once drove a BMW X1 rental in Europe and hated it. Every time you were at a stop and started driving the jerkiness when the ICE started was very noticeable. It had a disable button, but it will automatically re-enable at next drive. That was 3 year ago and dunno know how much has improved but didn't like it a bit.

When selecting my ES I wanted the v6 for the power and no A.S.S. as a bonus. But the only brand new 350 Lux model available had a nasty scratch. So, I opted for a Lux 300h after 2 long test drives. I was amazed at how seamless and unnoticeable the transition from ICE to EV was. Now after 4 months and 1,500mi I've learned how to feel the switch from ICE to EV. But still very smooth.

I do agree that A.S.S. outside of a hybrid power train doesn't make too much sense. How much additional mpg you can you get from that 1-2?

7ESOwner

Not gonna lie, this thread title really confused the heck out of me for a second...lol. Gotta get my mind out of the gutter

ESh

Still crap, especially the diesel engines.

Shaboom

I had the same experience. I rented a BMW in France. Very annoyed by the on/off nonsense. That cost BMW my business the next year when I bought the 350 ES instead of a BMW for that reason—-also because of the BMW’s run flat tires and sun roof that’s not a “pocket window” and sticks out when opened.
Just not a European car guy here. My 350 ES is so much more like the traditional American luxury sedans I so sorely miss.

mikemu30

The gen5 RX350 gas engine has stop start. It can be disabled but probably have to do it every time after shut down.

minotaar

The ES 300h has ***, and it runs so quietly you'd barely notice it. Not in terms of sound, not in terms of vibration. I think if the ES goes full hybrid across all trims/models, or just gets *** across all models, it won't be a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, I've driven *** cars on a bunch of other brands. But Toyota does it WAY WAY better.

Also, the MPG gains are real - 3-10% is a large amount, when you consider how much you're saving in gas over time.

scubapr

If you are investing in a Luxury V6 fuel economy shouldn't be a top priority. Most V6's have bigger tanks and use premium fuel over regular. The ES350 is a regular fuel rarity. But even at 10% A.S.S. gain, on a 26mpg car, that's only ~2.6 extra mpg on best scenario. I would expect 1-2 in real life.

IMHO for fuel economy, the Hybrid is the way to go. Smaller tank (13 gal vs 17 gal on V6) and 38-47mpg consistently. I'm at 1/4 of my 3rd fill up with over 1,492mi getting 44-48mpg. You will loose the high end torque of the V6, but at lower speeds or when accelerating the Hybrid (only on Sport Mode) has a superb low end torque to even spin wheels.

The A.S.S. implementation in the Hybrid is a different animal as technically the drive-train is always powered either by EV, ICE or both. You don't get the A.S.S. delay/jerkiness when accelerating from stand still when the ICE is off. I'll have to test the Toyota implementation on the ICE RX350 but I don't expect a liking.

ATL350

On cars with *** most do offer a button to disable it, which, as pointed out, must be done each time you start the car. The reason for this is EPA mileage testing. If the system defaults to ON when the car is started, then the test protocol allows it to assume it is left on and mileage is rated that way, thus gaining the highest number for the manufacturer to show their compliance with CAFE standards. If the system could be permanently disabled by the driver (a one time OFF button that would keep it off even when restarted) then the EPA mileage test assumes it will be off and kept that way so the final result shows lower mpg, something the manufacturers can't afford to have happen.

TechNut

I think these engines are designed to take this, so I wouldn’t worry as much about the engine, but I would worry more about the longevity of the starter. With a hybrid, there is no wear on a starter. Just a different comparison entirely. As a hybrid owner, I am fine with the “feel” of this behavior, but I have hated the jerky feeling in rentals I have used. I would never own one with this feature in a non-hybrid.

hotwings

I totally agree - Yes to V6 and NO to ***. Count me into the "dying breed" club.

After listening to this i would NEVER consider a start stop non hybrid car. I'm pretty sure you don't gain much MPG, its more about emission reduction. I could not believe how many changes they had to make (transmission, starter, engine timing, cabin heater, etc.) to make *** work.

You might be able to disable the function but the complexity is still there and you are forced on many cars to disable it every time you start.

F3Woody

Still cracking up at the title of this post.
Here's to hoping 2025 brings us all plenty of *** - cheers!