scubapr

Yes you have to give time. At first I did enjoyed the surround, but after a few days without it I noticed better vocals, sound reproduction and fader balance. But the surround adds more fullness at the expense of some hi-res nuances & fade balance.

WOW! Hat off!

BTW! Love the nice faithful companion there!

eyesurgeon

Good point, people need to remember that the ML system in the ES is a pretty cheap option in the world of automotive audio, it's not a world class audio system in the ES but it's good.

Paddler213

Yes, my initial reaction was perhaps premature and overly harsh. The fader is different from others I'm familiar with in that with the button in the middle it is more front weighted than I'm used to. It requires much more shift to the rear to get an immersive, balanced sound at the driver's position.

But again, I haven't heard the base system. It would be illuminating to listen to both variations at a 70MPH cruise on a good road surface. I've been searching for the noise level for the ES 300h Luxury under that condition but have seen various results. I went downstairs this morning and measured 39dB but that was with the HVAC running, without it I measured 29dB.

I've been into audio for a long time, like 50 years going back to my Larger Advents in 1974 with a Phillips GA212 turntable. I still have the Advents. The company was an offshoot of KLH, started by Henry Kloss who was the K in the former company. We bought our first really high end speakers, B&W 801 Series 3s, in 1994. We still have those as well, and that model was used at Abbey Road to master their recordings. My wife actually prefers them to the Diamonds, as they have more mid bass vs the probably more accurate Diamonds.

I got into all the audiophile scene back then, including Stereophile's Recommended Components. They lost me with their rubbish about the sonic improvements offered by $8000 interconnects. That prompted me to develop my "Two Beer" rule, which states that any audible improvement that was eliminated after the consumption of two beers wasn't worth paying for. That's why I went with Bryston over Levinson or Krell for my two-channel amp. Not that the Bryston gives up anything to any amplifier anywhere, it's build quality and 20 year warranty is second to none.

But since I don't drink and drive I'm unable to apply my rule to car audio. However, if the SPL in the ES is 70, it's hard to justify paying for an upgraded system. I originally was considering the Camry hybrid, and even went to a local dealership to inquire. They weren't at all flexible about models, optional equipment, colors, etc, and knowing my wife's penchant for luxury, bells and whistles, I suggested we go down to the Lexus dealership to poke around a bit. The experience was entirely different, for the better. It's important to understand that my wife still loves her BMW and wasn't ready to replace it, but she was taken by the ES and actually excited by it. She's thrilled with the car. I've noticed that many of the switches feel cheap and plasticy, but that's a small niggle. I'm quite comfortable with the quality and value of the car. I also like the fuel economy, it'll be a great road car, and it's rated by Consumer Reports as quieter than the Camry. Not sure why the overall rating was higher for the Camry, 93 vs 88, but the Lexus is the highest rated in its category.

F3Woody

Steering the thread off course - I have B&W's at home, bought them fresh out of college and it was a big deal to me. I just loved looking at them so I usually kept the dust covers off so I could see those bright yellow kevlar woofers, or whatever they're called, and the silver nose cone thingy protruding from the centers. Fast forward a few years and my then-toddler son apparently liked them too, walked up to it, grabbed that nose cone and "CRUUUNCH".
He's 17 now and I still occasionally remind and shame him for the mauled nose cones that are still behind the dust covers.

Paddler213

In my 801s the Kevlar drivers are the mid range, the woofers are some kind of plastic material, the tweeters are aluminum.

You should be able to replace your Kevlar driver without too much trouble.

F3Woody

Random internet pic, but this is the setup. I did look into repairing it long ago but surprisingly, I don't hear any problem, no rattling or distortion at all, so I never got around to fixing it.

Paddler213

My mistake, in a two-way speaker the larger driver is called the woofer. Here's a photo of the Matrix 801 Series 3:

AudioDriver

I went without the ML for 2 reasons. The cars w/ML had panoramic roofs and triple beam headlights. I hate sunroofs. And I think the stock lights look more expensive. I figured that I could just put something in myself if the “premium” 10 speaker system was no good.

I feel everyone who complains of bad rear speaker sounds pain. Same deal in my Camry. I spent more than the ML / Triple Beam upgrade for my aftermarket system in the Camry. Which I drilled out my own 6 x 9 mounts in the rear deck for. Problem solved.

Now I am no audiophile or sound purist. I don’t have anything with any tubes. But I like good sound. I spent a few thousand on a home theatre and a few thousand on the system in my Camry. Higher end mid market stuff. Onkyo, Elac, Klipsch, Kicker, Rockford, stuff like that. I have some kind of high quality sound system anywhere I spend any amount of time.

All I can say is I am very happy I didn’t get the ML in my 2024ES300h, which has everything except, ML, TripleBeams & Pano Roof. Seriously, no exaggerating—the stock 10 speaker system is the best system I’ve ever heard.

It sounds perfectly at volumes my wife tolerates in the car. But, no, it’s not as loud as my aftermarket. Or any aftermarket I ever had. But it sounds excellent.

Might also be the double panel soundproof glass, too?

One thing I’ll add for people talking about source material. The best source material for these systems is a high end iPhone with the latest version of what you listen to from iTunes. I was reluctant, too. But after getting this car, I bought a few of my favorite songs that I had ripped as lossless high quality tracks. The newer remasters are much better.

Yes. It sucks rebuying everything I already have. But trust me. It goes a long way towards the sound from these new modern systems. Especially for people saying no sound is coming from the sub. Newer remasters address sound to the sub. Because no one had subs until very recently.

I am not affiliated with Toyota, Lexus, Apple or any other brand mentioned. Just sharing my experience.

I’d say the stock system is 400-500 watts (total), with maybe 70 watts to the sub, or possibly Half that to the sub. Hard to tell, because it’s a little dead at certain frequencies in some songs. And in other songs it’s a sub you can feel outside. I think the sound processor distributes power to certain frequencies and speakers as surround sound, instead of the way LFE is handled on a home theatre. But that’s a guess made by ear.

Its real, high tech modern surround sound with a 3 speaker front soundstage, instead of the standard stereo 2 channels. The center front is used to move sound, instead of just for centering.

The salespeople were not fans of the ML system and sort of suggested it’s just a gimmick. I thought they were just saying that, until I got the car home and turned up the EQ 98% for treble, 92% mid and 80-90% low.

They really weren’t jerking me on that. It’s a great sounding system. Minus the rear deck lid speakers. But once you get used to that, it’s awesome. I’m sure ML is much better at much higher volumes, but most higher power systems usually are.

This is probably tuned to what 45-55 year olds are likely to listen to at low volumes and as pretty loud.

My Biggest complaint is how difficult it is to get to the EQ settings. That completely stinks. Worst than any other car system I’ve ever seen.

Paddler213

Ours came with the ML. I initially thought it was crap until I adjusted the levels. It sounds fine now, but if I were ordering a car I wouldn't waste the money. I don't think aftermarket car audio is worth doing unless you listen to it in your garage. While driving the ambient noise levels are too high.

I wouldn't pay for a panoramic moon roof. My preference would be no moon roof at all. They reduce headroom and decrease chassis rigidity, especially the panoramics. In my Expedition the roof rack weight capacity is significantly reduced by the sun roof. No thanks.

grp52

FYI, a panoramic glass roof has never been an option for any model year or type of this generation of Lexus ES 300h.

playmkr56

MODERATOR EDIT - playmkr56 exit this thread. Inappropriate commentary

Paddler213

This is what I was talking about. I'd prefer a solid roof over even the regular moonroof:

RalphPaula

Not buying a sunroof for this reason is like saying “I’m not going to wear pants because they’re going to get dirty.”
I believe technology has come a very long way but one might get a snafu that snuck through.

UltraLux22

I wholeheartedly agree! No panoramic glass roof is the way to go. I lucked out and special ordered my ES to avoid it, but if there were a sleek, seamless roofline option, I'd be sold. It feels like every modern car comes with some type of sky window nowadays.

Here's a fun fact: regular moonroofs are actually standard equipment on every ES model. However, most dealers choose to upgrade their inventory with the pano. glass roof due to its popularity. While I appreciate the aesthetic appeal, I'd still rather not have one. This makes finding an ES without one quite the challenge!

Your best options are the 250s, 300 Hybrids, or 350 F Sport Handling models to guarantee you won't end up with it. Special ordering might work, but it's not always a guarantee.

My previous ES had one and ended up spending 12 days in the shop for repairs. Lexus even had to bring in a specialist to figure out the issue. Besides that, I'm not a fan of the reduced headroom and the potential for extra wind noise.

I'm right there with you – no pano roofs for me either!

UltraLux22

The pano. glass roof was also unavailable on any ES 250 and F Sport versions until the 350 F Sport Design variant was introduced.