Paddler213

Yep. They call it the Docentation Fee here in Utah.I had forgotten about that when the sales guy offered a $2500 discount on our 300h. But as you say, the only figure that matters is the out-the-door price.

Wilson2000

OP: Just be thankful you aren't buying in California. We paid around $5,500 in sales tax alone!

Too, it's all about supply and demand. There is such a demand for the 300h Luxury in the Bay Area, we had to wait four years to get the color combo and trim we wanted! So, the dealer was in the driver's seat and we could only negotiate roughly 5% off the MSRP (paying cash), and had to comply with their "non-negotiable dealer add-ons!"

If we wanted darker-colored exterior/interiors, and/or 350 base, or F sport models, we could have driven a much harder bargain here.

93SCMax

Thought I'd give an update on my potential purchase based on using some of the tips suggested by posters.

My wife and I went back this morning and looked at one Luxury and one Ultra Luxury model. I knew my wife favored the color of the Ultra Luxury model. The interiors were also different, but both we could live with. The UL had the triple beam headlight, ML sound and smart key. Both had dealer add-ons of nitrogen filled tires, tinted windows, and door edge guards ($997 extra). Both had $799 dealer closing fee. The initial discount for both was around 7.1% but the add-ons and dealer fee added $1796 bringing the real discount to actually 4%. They would not budge on reducing the add-ons or dealer fee, saying they were already losing on the sale (sure). I asked for an additional $600 discount to compensate a little for the add-ons and dealer fee, but they said they couldn't do it. We left saying we needed to discuss their OTD price further. It is more than I wanted to spend, and I could save some by dropping to the Luxury model, but I like the color, smart key and triple beam headlights on the UL. We'll stew on it and maybe wait till the end of the month. I'm sure the saleman will be calling or texting me in the next few days.

Also, both cars had the Michelin tires vs other brand names. I was looking for an ES with Michelins, so a lot positive about both these cars.

Thanks for all your input.

bc6152

Good move... They're attempting to screw you with the tires, windows, and edge guards for $1000.00. I still can't believe that these dealers add on a "closing fee" and want to charge up to $500.00 for documents.
Here in Pennsylvania a tag transfer is $70.00 and new tags and title are around $100.00. When I bought my 2019 there was no "closing fee"... Pure BS... And this sales person had the ***** to say that they were losing money on the deal. Take it from me, they wouldn't sell the car if they were losing money...

Shaboom

Where in PA? I'm in Pgh but willing to travel. I bought my 2021 from a dealership in FL and paid a large dealer's fee. I'd love to avoid that next time!

hotwings

They could replace "Dealer closing fee" with "Additional dealer profit" to be more precisely descriptive.
Buying a new car and smashing my finger with a hammer are similar in my opinion.

scubapr

Don't worry, they will call in the next few days... Tell them you decided for UL but are evaluating other sale options/brands because of price.

What's the Out-of-Door price diff between Lux vs UL?

If I'm not mistaken the UL also has the noise reduction Wheels(Rims), Head-Up Display and a Power trunk with kick sensor as default options; that's additional to the triple beam headlight & ML sound. It could make sense if the price diff is not so much and you plan to keep the car for long (5-7+yrs). You'll basically have all the features available so no buyer's remorse.

When you say Smart Key, Are you referring to the Key Card (like credit card)? That's just a $100 option on the build, some people hate it, but I personally love it; and it's my primary and only key since day one.

hotwings

The only disadvantage to the smart key I can think of is you can't easily disable it from transmiting a signal to avoid a clone attack.
With the press button FOB you can press and hold the Lock button and press the Unlock button twice, simultaneously to deactivate.
I can't remember the last time I had to hit a button on the FOB other than to disable it.

93SCMax

The $500 is actually for South Carolina sales tax so that's legit. The dealer fees and add-ons are the real issue.

Paddler213

That doesn't even sound like a Lexus dealer, more like a used car salesman. The add-ons are completely worthless, and trying to get $1000 for them is an insult. Is there another dealer anywhere near you?

scubapr

True! But at home I have a large enough Faraday Box for all the KeyFobs and my Wallet.

Unfortunately, out of home, that's a chance I'm willing to take for the convenience. I seldom are less than 40 feet away from the car for a relay attack to work; always use a Wheel Club as deterrent; and try to park smartly.

But yes, that's a disadvantage; along with no remote open at distance. For remote I use the APP.

93SCMax

Yes, the Smart key is actually the Key Card. The UL has it, the Luxury not. Both have the trunk kick sensor and premium low noise wheels. I've gotta double check on the head up display, but I believe both have them. One thing I really dislike is having to pay an additional $1080 for the ML sound in the UL, but it looks like all UL have that upgrade as standard from the factory. Both are really nice cars, just deciding on whether I can get them down a little more or just settle and buy. My original buy timeline was by the end of July so I don't feel too pressured. Inventory at many dealers is up on this model.

We'll keep the car forever and it's possible that it will be the last new car we buy. Our current cars are 23, 18 and 17 years old, but I know how to take care of a car so this may be the last. Our 2007 Lexus GS350 is still in fantastic shape, but looking for something new with great fuel economy, great safety features, and a solid reliability reputation, hence the Lexus ES300h as our choice.

Once again, thanks for your input.

scubapr

You'll really love the 300h. I never owned a Hybrid before and was initially set on the ES350. But the only 350 LUX available had a very deep paint scratch with no way to buffer out. So the 300h LUX (with almost all UL options) was the only option me. On the first 2 weeks I was blown away by the fuel economy. Insane! Also since the tank is smaller I spend less on fill ups.

If the only difference between Lux vs UL is the Tri-Led and ML, then you have a very difficult choice. HUD is very cool, and I have it always on, but I could easily do without it. It's more of a novelty for me. And if you use Polarized glasses it will look dim. The performance difference between bi-led and tri-led is minimal at best. Some people even prefer the performance of bi-led. I personally think it's more about appearance; although I do like the moving/calibration effect of tri-led when turning on.

I did test the Base vs ML back and forth many times when shopping. And the base system is pretty good on it's own. For me the ML was a must and the add-on price was neglectable as I'm somewhat of an audiophile. I definitely do notice the difference in ML sound quality vs Base. But IMHO for most people it will probably sound about the same specially when using basic streaming audio (no hi-res files).

bc6152

Sounds like you're a bona fide senior citizen. I bought my 2019 only because it had numerous safety features that my pristine 2013 did not. Also being a senior and knowing my abilities have somewhat declined, these safety features are very important. I hope you never have to utilize any of them but if so, then they're there for you.

scubapr

Agreed! Those parking sensors and the 360 panoramic cam are awesome features. A few times I have had the PCS stop warning blink on the dash as I'm already reacting. It's good to know that, if for some reason I'm slow to react, it will brake automatically. The only negative is when trying to backup from a parking parallel into a two lane street. The system will automatically slam the brake as it detects traffic on the second lane making a useful feature very dangerous as you need to backup quickly. I know it can be disabled, but I have to find a quicker way to do it instead of the menu navigation.