Arrowrock

I traded the last of several Camry XLE's, a 2018, for a new 2021 Avalon Touring in July, 2021. The Avalon was far nicer than the Camry and we have been very happy with it. When the Crown Limited came out, I thought about trading because the descriptions implied that the Crown sort of replaced the Avalon but had a higher entry to make it better for mature owners. I drove a 2023 Crown Limited hybrid in October, 2023. It was not as nice as my Avalon. I then thought about trading for a Venza Limited and drove one in November, 2023. It was not as nice as my Avalon. Then I started shopping for a Lexus ES350 because someone on the Avalon board said I would find it to be what I was looking for. I looked at ES350 Ultra Luxury cars within 150 miles on websites to get familiar with what options they usually had and to get a feel for price and discounts. My local dealer did not have a suitable car, but I drove his ES300h Luxury and decided it was nicer than my Avalon, but I wanted the six cylinder engine like my Avalon and Camrys had. The local dealer was hopeless at meeting my price less trade expectations and revealed really bad arithmetic skill when he provided printed proposals for a trade deal on 10Jul24. So I called an out of town dealer and made a deal on the phone and picked up my new ES350 Luxury with almost all the features of a loaded Ultra Luxury on 13Jul24. No $1215 triple beam headlights, but I was happy with the Avalon lights, so no worry. We have not had it out after dark yet to try the headlights. So far, the wife and I are pleased with the Lexus.

So that is my personal take on Camry vs. Avalon vs. Crown vs. Venza vs. Lexus ES350.

ESh

My bull**** meter is at 100%.

rVague

I have a 2024 ES 350 V6 and recently test drove the new Camry hybrid. I was impressed with the build quality, quietness, smoothness, and the power. I would say it is near Lexus quality.

ATL350

The Car Nut Guy has a recent You Tube video reviewing the new Camry. Overall he liked it, though he questioned (as do I) this “fabric on the dash” look. He did note how the bean counters have made themselves felt despite the price the higher trim levels command, things like it now have a prop-rod for the heavy hood rather then the old gas struts, and the deletion of the trim shielding on the trunk hinges. Little things, but it did take away some of the prior quality feel.

Arrowrock

I have owned several Camry XLE V6 cars. For many years, I had read that a loaded Camry was almost as nice as a Lexus ES, but cheaper. I was never tempted to look at a Lexus, thinking of it as an overpriced Camry. But I was interested in getting a nicer car. In 2021, I traded the 2018 Camry for a 2021 Avalon Touring V6, which proved to be a much nicer car. Then they stopped making Avalons and I saw a suggestion that the Crown was a sort of replacement for the Avalon and the higher entry was supposed to appeal to mature owners (us). In October, 2023, I drove a new Crown Limited hybrid and had the dealer write up a trade price. The Crown was not as nice as my Avalon, so I lost interest in trading. Then I saw a suggestion that a Venza Limited was almost as nice as a Lexus. In November, 2023, I drove a new Venza Limited hybrid and had the dealer write up a trade price. The Venza was not as nice as my Avalon, so again I lost interest in trading. And two days after walking away from the Venza, I read that Toyota discontinued the model, as they had with the Avalon.

This year, I decided to look more closely at the Lexus ES. I searched the nearby dealer stocks, studied the window stickers and saw what options seemed to be routinely installed on the higher trim levels. The ES350 Ultra Luxury with the usual options looked quite attractive. I liked the idea of having my familiar V6 drivetrain instead of a hybrid. I saw what to expect for price and discounts and likely trade value for my Avalon. I went to my local Lexus store and had them appraise my Avalon and let me drive an ES. They put me in an ES300h Luxury to drive, but I liked the ES and decided it was finally a nicer car than my Avalon. The dealer had to do an exchange with another dealer to get an ES350 UL in a color I would buy. He printed out a price proposal that had arithmetic errors, a low trade-in value, a low discount and a sneaked-in GPS tracker add-on. I said no deal. The next day, I bought an ES350 Luxury with most of the options found on the Ultra Luxury except the $1215 triple beam headlights and rear side sunscreens. I made the deal by phone with an out of town Lexus dealer for the trade value I expected and a generous discount. We drove to the dealer and traded cars last Saturday. My wife and I are quite pleased with the new Lexus after owning it a week. We have not driven it after dark yet, but I think the stock headlights are about the same as the Avalon, so I don't think I missed much by not getting the triples.

So that is my personal take on Camry vs. Avalon vs. Crown vs. Venza Vs. Lexus ES350.

Here is what I bought:

ATL350

Nice write up, Arrowrock. A question, if I may. You said the Crown was not as nice as the Avalon, which I’ve heard before, but I’m curious to know what about it was “not as nice”? Was it the ride, the sound insulation, the seats, the feel (or lack of feeling) of a sense of luxury or comfort, the material choices, etc.? I fear that certain elements of the Crown design will creep into the next gen ES so I’m curious. Thanks.

Arrowrock

It has been about ten months, so I cannot recite a perfect list. I do recall the Crown Limited had no head up display and no power steering wheel adjust with memory, both things I valued on my Avalon.

As far as I have been able to detect, my ES350 has every mechanical and functional feature I liked on the Avalon and a number of additional nice things. I will say that I am disappointed in the so-called wood trim on my ES. I have Macadamia with bamboo and I am quite sure the bamboo look is photo-printed on plastic. It looks cheap. The Avalon had black with a carbon fiber look interior trim and the wheel rim was entirely leather covered. It looked better than my ES.

Plamboo?

pab12

I agree, the black wood trim on my ES could very well be plastic. But the worst part is that you can't differentiate it from the black dash or door trim.
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '24 Lexus ES350 Lux
Current Mine: '23 Lexus IS350 F Sport AWD

ATL350

I think it’s real but the nature of bamboo is a factor. It’s not like a tree with a real broad surface area, say like the walnut trim with the palomino leather, and you can see that it is cut in smaller strips that is assembled. All veneers like this, even super expensive ones in a Rolls or Bentley are very thin and carefully assembled and glued to a base. I rather like the look of the bamboo interior but like all the “open pore” wood Lexus uses, the sealer they choose to use gives it a plastic appearance. They need to explore the use of sealants that don’t give that sheen in the same way. I also wish Lexus would give us better choices and stop forcing that dreadful black wood trim on most interiors. It is too dark and does look really cheap.

LexFinally

I'm not always turned off by car wood trim that's under a shiny lacquer. One assumes Lexus is doing it because, in classic Toyota fashion, it's more indestructible over the life of the car. For instance, I thought the dark striped gloss wood available in 2019 at the start of Gen 7 was very nice. I just think the black wood lin my car is a cheapout that disguises what's behind the stain, no matter how inferior it is. It looks like Ikea, and if it is, who would know?

UltraLux22

If I'm not mistaken, both of our 22 ULs sported that black open-pore wood trim with the remarkably underwhelming (yet undeniably plastic and honestly a bit cheap) faux-bois finish. It blended seamlessly into the black interior, almost disappearing into the shadows. It may not have been the most exciting design choice, especially when you aren't given the choices of mahogany and carbon fiber, but it didn't detract from the overall enjoyment. It almost felt like something you'd find at IKEA, now that you mention it.

Speaking of which, I now have an urge to browse IKEA. I rarely need anything, but I enjoy wandering the aisles and laughing at the quirky product names. Their Scandinavian sensibility, even in nomenclature, is hilarious.

UltraLux22

It is made of real bamboo. Although not explicitly stated in this article, it is likely that it is a real bamboo veneer, similar to the techniques used on other wood trims. I don't have accurate information about the bamboo, but it is at least partially real. https://discoverlexus.com/stories/th...uty-of-bamboo/

It's wood, alright... but it's like it sprouted from a plastic forest, was handcrafted by a kindergartener with a black crayon, and then tried desperately to convince you it was anything but wood. A true identity crisis in trim form.

I remember reading this information a while back, but I can't remember the source. It seems reliable though. The black open-pore wood trim in the ES is real wood, not fake. However, it is dyed black and given a matte finish to achieve the desired look. As I've said previously, I still find that it appeared fake and a bit cheap, but it wasn't a detractor for me. In fact, after a while in the all-black cabin, I didn't really notice it at all.

1. Wood Selection: Lexus carefully selects high-quality wood veneers, typically from ash trees, known for their attractive grain patterns.
2. Dyeing and Staining: The wood veneers are dyed black to achieve a uniform color. This is not a simple surface dye but a process that permeates the wood to ensure a consistent look throughout.
3. Open-Pore Treatment: The wood is then treated with a special finish that partially fills the pores, leaving a textured surface that highlights the natural grain. This open-pore technique enhances the tactile experience and creates a more authentic look.
4. Matte Finish: Finally, a matte clear coat is applied to protect the wood and give it a smooth, non-glossy finish.

Shaboom

To your point, I “built” a 2025 top of the line Camry XSE last evening and was impressed with a lot of things about it. The bundling arrangements were workable for me. The available options provided all the extras I’d want and the car really looks spiffy. All-wheel drive is standard at no extra charge, though I personally don’t need it. Further, I don’t anything but a standard internal combustion engine and that’s no longer available on Camry. Not to beat a dead horse but my hope is that the 2026 Lexus ES will offer at least the 4 cyl turbo ICE.
Nevertheless, the new Camry offers a number of the things that I hope will carry over into the 2026 Lexus ES 350. The optional red interior is beautiful, I like the two tone (white/black for me) available paint combination. The rear diffuser and generally sporty exterior are not a bit stodgy. The front and grill and nicely done. (And I could save about $10,000 between the top fully equipped Camry and a well equipped ES).
I won’t do it though because I’m certain the Lexus, on balance, will look, ride and feel more luxurious, which is most important to me. But my point is that I hope the 26 ES 350 replicates some of those attractive features the new Camry offers. It’s a darn sharp car. We’ll see in another 12 months or so, I guess.

LexFinally

Good to know; thanks for sharing that. I didn't know it.

And yeah, I get a chuckle out of the faux-Scandinavian "words" Ikea uses to name their stuff. Somehow they manage to sound very much like intelligible English-language words that fit the item's category. Sheer coincidence, I'm sure.

Arrowrock

The above information gave me a clue to why the "bamboo" trim looks like plastic with a photographic finish. The Lexus 2024 ES brochure describes my interior trim as "ash bamboo" without the "open-pore" descriptor, but it is called wood in the Lexus specs. See below for the brochure image. Before I bought the car, I had thought they meant it was actual bamboo stained an ash gray color. Anyway, if the "wood" in the trim is typically veneer from ash trees and is then given a smooth opaque finish that duplicates plastic with a bamboo design printed on it and covered with a matte clear coat, it lets them call it wood, but it still looks like cheap plastic trim. By the way, scientifically, bamboo is a grass, not a wood. But it is often made into wood-like products, so the difference is clouded.