E46CT

that's just because those are bmw parts being used because the supra is a bmw. that's not toyota trying or implementing anything.

E46CT

also for those saying complication complication... go see what's going on in the NX450h/500h/Tundra/TT V6 Lexus / Toyota world..

we're all (well you guys are) stuck in the camry/ES 4 banger hybrid which is very reliable indeed.. but you guys know there's a whole other side to the new lexus lineup.....

scubapr

Agree on the improvements. Almost every manufacturer has something good that Toyota could improve on. IMHO Lexus can copy all good things form any manufacturer (patent permitted) as long as they maintain their current Reliability and as @ESh suggested without making it so complex that it's difficult or costly to maintain.

ndunn

You might be over analyzing what I said but it boils down to my belief that the ES or other Lexi are not inferior. And for the average Lexus driver the increased rigidity, as they enjoy the quiet cabin driving legally while listening to the fine ML system, will be a selling data point to justify a higher price without realizing the benefit.

E46CT

It's just funny when statements from Toyota/Lexus comes out praising some other car or saying they want to improve and the first thing the most hardcore Toyota fans do is go out and argue against Toyota's own words.. like wait.. do you realize you're fighting Toyota on this? lol. we should all be cheering on improvement.

Shaboom

Maybe the problem is simply that many Lexus owners bought their cars because of quiet 6 cyl power and luxurious comfortable ride. That’s what we seek. We are traditional, older and prefer the luxury class type of cars not of the future. That doesn’t make it right or wrong, just a preference that’s resisting automotive changes and preferences.
Lexus will inevitably change, maybe to increase its appeal to younger buyers who don’t share the priorities of us 70 and 80 year olds. Us older folks will be sad to see it but that’s simply the nature of change and progress.

ndunn

You have a good point, improvement isn't a bad thing. The internet made me do it though this being an affordable luxury car like no other it would be a pity to see it become too sporty.

freeflight

Increased chassis rigidity/stiffness can pay dividend to ride comfort. Manufacturer can use softer suspension with rigid chassis, instead of forced to use stiffer suspension with softer chassis to maintain handling characteristics.

FastDawg

To those who think change isn't a good thing you should take a look at what GM did to the C8 Corvette - made it a mid-engine design and eliminated the manual transmission. Some die-hard Corvette owners complained about not being able to use a clutch and won't admit that nobody can out shift a computer. Some people complained about the lack of storage space. It's a sports car!

Chevy has just caught up with demand this year. When the C8 was first built in 2019 for the 2020 model year the wait lists were a year minimum and some people were paying large premiums charged by dealers to get them quicker. I got lucky. I got on a wait list at MSRP at one of the top ten dealers in the country in April 2021 and my C8 was delivered in September 2021. Until early this year you could not find a new C8 sitting on a dealer lot for sale unless a deal fell through with the person who originally ordered it.

I picked out the ES 350 that I wanted and waited a couple of weeks for my dealer to find one for me that fit my specs. We are fortunate.

scubapr

For most people it's human nature to resist change. We get used to how something works and resist changing it. It is very common in technology. I remember when people and business did not wanted to migrate from Windows 3.11 > 95 > XP > Win7 > 10, etc. Unfortunately some major changes and improvements sometimes affect other things for the worse; but we have to evolve. At the end, the car should work for us, no the other way around.

The auto industry is fast moving to EV and probably disposable EV's; as battery replacement will cost 50% more than the entire car value if damaged on a collision or after 8-12 yrs, if kept for that long. So unless a new tech emerges, or batt come down in price, that's the change roadmap....

peteharvey

It's actually the other way around.

When a chassis that lacks rigidity is matched to firmer coil springs, the firmer coil springs will not compress - instead, the chassis that lacks rigidity will flex.
By using a stiffer chassis, the firmer coil springs will be forced to compress - rather than flexing the chassis.

In other words, a stiffer chassis allows the manufacturer to use stiffer coils.

peteharvey

Unfortunately, modern consumers are no longer interested in luxury sedans like our ES's.
Modern consumers are into high riding SUV's and big pickup trucks - despite many never using the truck bed, nor taking the vehicle off-road.

VTHokie79

But a turbo charged 4 banger will not cut it. Gubmint has regulated 6 and 8 cylinders down the toilet. Toyota dealer offered me big money on my 2018 4Runner because they will be in demand as Toyota transitions to a 4 banger next year. I did recently purchased a 2024 loaded RCF. The V8 will be going away very soon. Probably a turbo'd 6.

ESh

Chassis can flex if not rigid but do you think that flex is more than 1 mm?

peteharvey

Depending on how rigid the chassis and coil springs are, a stiff set of coils springs can force the chassis the flex "several" inches!
Normally, if chassis is not rigid enough, very stiff coils cannot be used, and if very stiff coils are used, it is used on the understanding that the chassis will flex.