Lexus is trying to match the ES to the germans
08-30-24, 12:44 PM
#31
I drove new GM trucks for a couple decades and every new model they were improving rigidity by double digits. I could not tell any difference in a vehicle that I was overly familiar with. While rigidity numbers went up with prices overall quality went down. Remember the old saw, don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
08-30-24, 01:08 PM
#32
This whole thread is a tempest in a teapot. All automakers are benchmarking each other constantly and tear down competitors' cars to reveal their secrets.
Porsche became so concerned about their inferior reliability, it hired Toyota to consult with them and then overhauled their production methods. Hyundai hired Lotus to tune the Genesis sedan's suspension in a concession of defeat that they couldn't do it as well themselves. Automakers including Toyota tore down and imitated the lowly Dodge Neon because it was brilliantly engineered to use fewer parts and fewer fasteners of fewer kinds, shaving hundreds of dollars in cost per car without the customer noticing the difference. And every 24 hours, the sun sets in the west.
Porsche became so concerned about their inferior reliability, it hired Toyota to consult with them and then overhauled their production methods. Hyundai hired Lotus to tune the Genesis sedan's suspension in a concession of defeat that they couldn't do it as well themselves. Automakers including Toyota tore down and imitated the lowly Dodge Neon because it was brilliantly engineered to use fewer parts and fewer fasteners of fewer kinds, shaving hundreds of dollars in cost per car without the customer noticing the difference. And every 24 hours, the sun sets in the west.
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09-01-24, 09:08 AM
#33
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Lexus confirmed their models doesn't have enough chassis rigidity and since 2018 they've been benchmarking the germans. Lexus found that their models could not match German Technology. They took an ES and modified the front to be rigid, for testing purposes. They said they plan to make changes in the future and it will take years. so maybe the next model will be good in that regard, indeed.
Here is the article: https://www.motor1.com/news/731506/l...idity-updates/
Here is the article: https://www.motor1.com/news/731506/l...idity-updates/
09-01-24, 09:36 AM
#34
09-01-24, 07:49 PM
#35
09-01-24, 08:22 PM
#36
Here's my two cents 
on ES350 chassis rigidity:
Lexus didn't give us fold down rear seats (but the sister Avalon had them!) allegedly for improved structural rigidity.
Do the German car rear seats fold down?
on ES350 chassis rigidity:Lexus didn't give us fold down rear seats (but the sister Avalon had them!) allegedly for improved structural rigidity.
Do the German car rear seats fold down?
09-01-24, 08:30 PM
#37
Cord (automobile) - Wikipedia
09-01-24, 08:52 PM
#38
On the other hand, more structural rigid sports sedans like the Regular TLX & Type-S have them; although the Type-S (SH-AWD + 355hp) adds extra chassis bracing cuts into some of the available space. The M340i also have them as an option I think.
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09-02-24, 06:44 AM
#39
If you look at the E-class as the nearest competitor, I believe this newest generation does have a folding rear seat. But the previous generation (akin to the current ES) did not have them. I had a 2014 and they did not fold down.
09-02-24, 06:51 AM
#40
I suspect this stiffening is a response to the heavier cars in the pipeline that are a result of electrification.
As for a fold down seat, fixed is quieter and more rigid and unless I'm carrying skis or going to Home Depot it won't be missed. This vehicle isn't intended to be a hauler rather it is a comfortable cruiser. It is good as is for that.
As for a fold down seat, fixed is quieter and more rigid and unless I'm carrying skis or going to Home Depot it won't be missed. This vehicle isn't intended to be a hauler rather it is a comfortable cruiser. It is good as is for that.
Last edited by ndunn; 09-02-24 at 06:54 AM.
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09-02-24, 02:21 PM
#41
It reduces the torsional rigidity and bending stiffness too.
09-02-24, 05:11 PM
#42
Pole Position
The masses are asses! Donkeys, that is!
09-02-24, 05:19 PM
#43
Pole Position
This whole thread is a tempest in a teapot...Automakers including Toyota tore down and imitated the lowly Dodge Neon because it was brilliantly engineered to use fewer parts and fewer fasteners of fewer kinds, shaving hundreds of dollars in cost per car without the customer noticing the difference. And every 24 hours, the sun sets in the west.
Personally, it bothers me to no end that Toyota uses fewer parts, such as fasteners. It makes it really difficult to work on cars engineered to optimize ease of production while reducing manufacturing costs, as it results in problematic servicing/repairs.
09-02-24, 07:27 PM
#44
Pole Position
This whole thread is a tempest in a teapot...Automakers including Toyota tore down and imitated the lowly Dodge Neon because it was brilliantly engineered to use fewer parts and fewer fasteners of fewer kinds, shaving hundreds of dollars in cost per car without the customer noticing the difference. And every 24 hours, the sun sets in the west.
Personally, it bothers me to no end that Toyota uses fewer parts, such as fasteners. It makes it really difficult to work on cars engineered to optimize ease of production while reducing manufacturing costs, as it oftentimes results in problematic servicing/repairs.
09-03-24, 06:47 AM
#45
