All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
04-25-18, 07:28 AM
#511
drives cars
I mean, they have a red interior, which brightens it up a bit. I prefer the traditional colors on the new ES to be honest.
I hope that the V-brace doesn't end up on the next IS - I actually have used the folding rear seats a couple of times and would miss them.
I hope that the V-brace doesn't end up on the next IS - I actually have used the folding rear seats a couple of times and would miss them.
04-25-18, 07:29 AM
#512
Lexus Champion
This may be the first time I've ever drooled over an ES. I think they nailed it, inside and out.
04-25-18, 07:41 AM
#513
I just finished watching the North American debut in Southern California. I can’t believe one of their executives said on a mic “we are excited to say we have made our entry level sedan larger than our flagship LS”.
The exterior is a huge leap forward from the geriatric looking 6th gen ES. This new one has a sporty athletic stance to it. The ES almost looks ready to pounce when sitting still.
The Interior still looks a little low rent(hard plastic on dash panel), but it does finally encroach on the 4GS as far as design and overall interior quality.
Taking all of this into account. It only makes since that Lexus will surprise us with a very different looking GS that will be more daring and coupé like than ever before. I’m sure the engine options will include the twin turbo six from the LS. I really hope they blow the GS out of the water or I’m going back to BMW’s 8 series Gran Coupé when that goes on sale.
The exterior is a huge leap forward from the geriatric looking 6th gen ES. This new one has a sporty athletic stance to it. The ES almost looks ready to pounce when sitting still.
The Interior still looks a little low rent(hard plastic on dash panel), but it does finally encroach on the 4GS as far as design and overall interior quality.
Taking all of this into account. It only makes since that Lexus will surprise us with a very different looking GS that will be more daring and coupé like than ever before. I’m sure the engine options will include the twin turbo six from the LS. I really hope they blow the GS out of the water or I’m going back to BMW’s 8 series Gran Coupé when that goes on sale.
04-25-18, 08:04 AM
#514
I think a hybrid+AWD model would have made the hybrid model a killer in sales. They could have sold it as the top trim, quiet, safe (AWD = safer, i know...) executive trim.
Overall a great model for the current market. Android Auto might have brought it over the top for my wife so maybe that's a good thing that it doesn't have it for now.
Overall a great model for the current market. Android Auto might have brought it over the top for my wife so maybe that's a good thing that it doesn't have it for now.
04-25-18, 08:22 AM
#515
What is being revealed here echos what I heard at the auto show a few months ago. The LS flagship model may be too large for most people and cater to a niche group of people. The GS fits in between the ES and LS. The newer ES design does take enough cues from the flagship. There are some sporty hints from the GS. Overall, it is a more desirable model for the larger group of buyers and ES owners interested in 'upgrading'. "Baby LS" is a name that will stick for a while. CarPlay integration is a bonus alternative to the current interface to have the car more 'relevant' to the next 10-12 years.
The GS product puts Toyota in an awkward spot -- does it make business sense for a sports version in small numbers (we have the GS 350, GS 450h, and high powered GS) or concentrate on where the sales are (and growing it). The GS sales numbers do not justify so many product variations (and custom tooling/mfg costs). ES is more deserving of product variations than the GS is.
At the end of the day, Lexus brand is about the luxury and reliability at a more affordable price over the Germany Group of Auto Companies (GGAC). Growing the global footprint is a better path for Lexus and hence the 2019 ES350 reveal in Beijing.
Camry/Avalon hints/references are hard to ignore. Toyota has offered the market a good(camry)/better(Avalon)/best(ES) line up. If you want the best in this line up, you know it's the ES. The ES does have some sporty cues to it to stay relevant with a signature look. It does make sense to premiere the redesigned ES first and see what kind of a market remains for the GS (are GS sales trending down to the point that a redesigned GS within the next 2-3 years is not worth doing).
The GS product puts Toyota in an awkward spot -- does it make business sense for a sports version in small numbers (we have the GS 350, GS 450h, and high powered GS) or concentrate on where the sales are (and growing it). The GS sales numbers do not justify so many product variations (and custom tooling/mfg costs). ES is more deserving of product variations than the GS is.
At the end of the day, Lexus brand is about the luxury and reliability at a more affordable price over the Germany Group of Auto Companies (GGAC). Growing the global footprint is a better path for Lexus and hence the 2019 ES350 reveal in Beijing.
Camry/Avalon hints/references are hard to ignore. Toyota has offered the market a good(camry)/better(Avalon)/best(ES) line up. If you want the best in this line up, you know it's the ES. The ES does have some sporty cues to it to stay relevant with a signature look. It does make sense to premiere the redesigned ES first and see what kind of a market remains for the GS (are GS sales trending down to the point that a redesigned GS within the next 2-3 years is not worth doing).
04-25-18, 08:23 AM
#516
Lead Lap
I think a hybrid+AWD model would have made the hybrid model a killer in sales. They could have sold it as the top trim, quiet, safe (AWD = safer, i know...) executive trim.
Overall a great model for the current market. Android Auto might have brought it over the top for my wife so maybe that's a good thing that it doesn't have it for now.
Overall a great model for the current market. Android Auto might have brought it over the top for my wife so maybe that's a good thing that it doesn't have it for now.
04-25-18, 08:28 AM
#517
Pole Position
The ES 350 comes with a 3.5-liter V-6 like the previous model. But this time around, it delivers 302 hp and 267 lb-ft of torque, up from 268 hp and 248 lb-ft. And instead of a six-speed automatic, the car gets a new eight-speed.
For the hybrid, an updated powertrain consists of a lighter, more compact electric motor, a nickel metal hydride battery, and a 2.5-liter four-cylinder gas engine. Increasing total output from 200 hp to 215 hp, this powertrain has been initially estimated to hit 44 mpg in combined city and highway driving. The current model tops out at a combined 40 mpg.
04-25-18, 08:30 AM
#519
+1. This car looks great and will sell tons... but it would be a complete bonehead move to ditch the RWD Sedans... especially when they can piggyback off the Toyota Crown to synergize development costs. I'd never get an ES either.
04-25-18, 08:49 AM
#520
AWD would add an interesting variable to the equation -- additional components/weight to the vehicle and a higher price point but its absence shows that the ES doesn't need to change its winning formula -- most sedans sold in the US are FWD but you're right, an AWD Hybrid ES (if kept under the $40k mark) would be awesome.
04-25-18, 09:02 AM
#521
Lexus Champion
It's weak for a luxury sedan especially if it's the only option. But the ES is sorta unique so its client base might not care. Also, the FWD system is reaching its limits on horsepower as any more induces torque steer.
I was hoping for a turbo with AWD but I guess we have to wait for the GS / IS for that option.
I was hoping for a turbo with AWD but I guess we have to wait for the GS / IS for that option.
In the Motor Trend review of the Avalon, they mentioned this.
But as with the 296-hp Sienna, the 301-hp Avalon has trouble getting all of that power to the front wheels. If you’re taking off in the Avalon from a dead stop, consider being gentle with the throttle at first to avoid chirping the tires. After that, you’ll feel a surge of power as you accelerate to highway speeds. The 3.5-liter V-6 feels powerful in passing situations, taking just a moment to inhale before giving you the oomph you need.
04-25-18, 09:21 AM
#522
that hump in the rear cabin that your reffering to is too minuscule for a prop shaft to run through there. The Camry/Avalon both have floor humps too. It’s simply there to allow the exhaust plumbing to flow aerodynamically within confinement of the under body reducing unnecessary drag coefficiency and turbulence. The rear humps in all the rear wheel drive cars I’ve owned are at least double the size of that hump if not triple.
04-25-18, 09:22 AM
#523
Lexus Test Driver
I think the car would struggle to put down any more power, at least without AWD.
In the Motor Trend review of the Avalon, they mentioned this.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyot...-drive-review/
In the Motor Trend review of the Avalon, they mentioned this.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyot...-drive-review/
04-25-18, 09:26 AM
#524
As to people talking about hybrid AWD, while I would like it, current implementation makes little sense really... you dont actually get more power with it... It would make much more sense for them to have AWD for petrol engines.
04-25-18, 09:38 AM
#525
Lexus Test Driver
After reading about the 2019 Avalon Touring none of these new 7th gen ES details surprise me one bit. As a self proclaimed ES hater. I have to say Lexus did a damn good job with the new ES. It looks like it could be class leading at least on paper. It’s literally a mechanical carbon copy of the slightly more polarizing 2019 Avalon. I think I would personally just save my money and buy a fully loaded Avalon than buy this new ES. Like BippuLexus mentioned, this only reassures my beliefs that Lexus will be launching a longer wheel base LS and a even sexier 5th generation GS with a twin turbo six option.
The ES looks very handsome, I’m sure it will sell very well even without all wheel drive. I love the blue paint.
The ES looks very handsome, I’m sure it will sell very well even without all wheel drive. I love the blue paint.
+1. Looks like the Lexus GS is alive and well.
Let me rephrase. A purist car enthusiast would never buy this car. And I also think Lexus ES doesn't target these people anyways nor they even aim to target any enthusiasts.
What is being revealed here echos what I heard at the auto show a few months ago. The LS flagship model may be too large for most people and cater to a niche group of people. The GS fits in between the ES and LS. The newer ES design does take enough cues from the flagship. There are some sporty hints from the GS. Overall, it is a more desirable model for the larger group of buyers and ES owners interested in 'upgrading'. "Baby LS" is a name that will stick for a while. CarPlay integration is a bonus alternative to the current interface to have the car more 'relevant' to the next 10-12 years.
The Infiniti Q60 RS is more of a baby GTR than the Lexus ES is a baby LS.
I disagree. Carplay will not make a car more "relevant" for 10-12 years. A vehicle having Carplay doesn't make it anymore modern than a car without it. Its not a deal-breaker on luxury vehicles. IE: Why would a BMW owner use Carplay over iDrive? Why would an Audi owner use Carplay over MMI/Virtual Cockpit? The iDrive/MMI system is 100 times better than the basic Carplay system.
Also - who's to say Carplay will still be around in another decade. Who's to say even Apple iPhone/Andriods Phones will be around either? The tech scene changes everyday. In a decade, there can be another "it" tech item.
I personally wouldn't get a ES either. As much as I love Lexus and think the ES is a good car, I still can't shake the fact its a Camry/Avalon re-skin with the same platform, engine, and drive-train. Its literally just badge-engineering.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 04-25-18 at 09:43 AM.