All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
04-28-18 | 10:14 AM
#751
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,295
Likes: 72
From: New York
You have to ENGINEER the car to have AWD, u cant just stick it on when you feel like it.
They also need to brand their AWD like the competition - 4matic, Xdrive, Quattro, SHAWD etc.
The people that run Lexus are asleep at the wheel, there is so much MORE they can be doing. Atleast get the Marketing on point that's easier than new engines!
Last edited by RNM GS3; 04-28-18 at 10:19 AM.
04-28-18 | 10:19 AM
#752
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,687
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
LOL What makes you think Toyota has not engineered AWD into the ES or Avalon? Toyota is on record stating that the Avalon is capable of AWD in the future if there is a demand for it.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-28-18 at 10:44 AM.
04-28-18 | 12:04 PM
#753
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,128
Likes: 2,788
From: Maryland
04-28-18 | 01:01 PM
#757
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,375
Likes: 488
From: Ca
On the topic of the 4IS, I disagree with you that it'll have a new Turbo with 20 extra HP/TQ. Toyota and Lexus are pretty slow on changing engines, like super slow that its ridiculous.
Evidence of this is: The 2IS held the 2.5 V6 from 06 till 2015 - a total of 9 years. (And the 3.5 V6 even longer - for a total of 12 years.) Since the AR Turbo was only released in the IS for MY2016, its likely Lexus won't change out the engine in 4 years (MY2021 for 4IS). It'll be too quick to change and they'll likely milk it till they have to change it. I mean, the 2014 Lexus IS sold similar numbers to the 2006 Lexus IS despite having a 8 year old engine at the time.
Evidence of this is: The 2IS held the 2.5 V6 from 06 till 2015 - a total of 9 years. (And the 3.5 V6 even longer - for a total of 12 years.) Since the AR Turbo was only released in the IS for MY2016, its likely Lexus won't change out the engine in 4 years (MY2021 for 4IS). It'll be too quick to change and they'll likely milk it till they have to change it. I mean, the 2014 Lexus IS sold similar numbers to the 2006 Lexus IS despite having a 8 year old engine at the time.
Disagree if you want. It's my opinion, and you can have yours.
If the IS retains the 311hp 3.5L V6 then its doubtful they'll upgrade the 2.0T. If they manage to put a detuned 3.5L TTV6 in there, there's a better chance of the upgrade.
Lexus also changed two powertrains on the GS between 2006-2007. 2006 GS300 and GS430 to the 2007 GS350 and GS460. So anything is possible.
But as for right now, the 2.0T is not needed in the 7ES hence its omission.
If the IS retains the 311hp 3.5L V6 then its doubtful they'll upgrade the 2.0T. If they manage to put a detuned 3.5L TTV6 in there, there's a better chance of the upgrade.
Lexus also changed two powertrains on the GS between 2006-2007. 2006 GS300 and GS430 to the 2007 GS350 and GS460. So anything is possible.
But as for right now, the 2.0T is not needed in the 7ES hence its omission.
Ahh! I didn't mean any offense. I'm just disagreeing based on my opinions. Of course - this is car chat and everyone is allowed to have their opinions.
I just believe, being how slow Toyota actually switched up engines, they'll likely keep the AR Turbo and the 311HP V6 on the Lexus IS. However - I do agree with you. Anything can happen and Lexus can switch things up - just like they did with the GS.
But it back to the ES - yeah, the ES doesn't need a I4 Turbo. I believe it has to do with pricing (Lexus doesn't want it to start any lower) and because the Avalon doesn't have a I4 Turbo.
I just believe, being how slow Toyota actually switched up engines, they'll likely keep the AR Turbo and the 311HP V6 on the Lexus IS. However - I do agree with you. Anything can happen and Lexus can switch things up - just like they did with the GS.
But it back to the ES - yeah, the ES doesn't need a I4 Turbo. I believe it has to do with pricing (Lexus doesn't want it to start any lower) and because the Avalon doesn't have a I4 Turbo.
Bippu, I would recommend that we give our opinion - without quoting - let alone putting down another member's opinion.
Having to put down another member's opinion points to being judgemental, self righteous and opinionated.
We are not God.
Who are we to judge who is right or wrong?
Best we be positive and give our opinions, without the need negatively to put down another poster's opinions.
It makes better etiquette and a happier forum.
7ES Transmission Tunnels
The lower the vehicle floor, the deeper the transmission tunnel.
Furthermore, a deeper transmission tunnel increases torsional rigidity and bending stiffness.
New 7ES appears to have potential for AWD.
However, I am "feeling" a gradual transition towards electrification of the motor vehicle industry.
TMC appears to not want to do too much more with traditional internal combustion engines.
They seem to want to avoid low fuel consumption small capacity turbos.
They don't want to invest in a 4.0 V8 TT.
They don't appear interested in electric turbos that can accelerate to 70,000 rpm in just 2 milliseconds to eliminate lag.
I don't think TMC is that interested in 7ES AWD, although most of the "passive" AWD mechanicals are already there in the Highlander.
I suspect that TMC wants to jump directly into EV's.
Now, it's phasing out of ICE, and phasing in with EV.
Thus I sense an "ulterior motive" to the axing of the GS line; there seems to be an EV replacement in the near future.
Back in the late 19990's, there were many naysayers who refused to give up Kodak film, newsagents, book stores, libraries and cash money.
They refused to accept the coming of digital photography, computers and plastic/electronic money.
Ditto motor vehicles...
04-28-18 | 01:53 PM
#758
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,951
Likes: 171
Which is what I figured and that identifies the problem, right? Automakers aren't targeting sedans to the younger generation. This vehicle is targeting a market that is getting smaller and their demand for buying vehicles is decreasing. For instance, my dad is 66, retired, and has 26k miles on his 2012 E350. No intention of buying another car. I'm 31. I might be more interested in an ES if it offered a PHEV option and/or AWD. I don't need 300 HP through the front wheels.
Lexus EU has clearly stated they wont do PHEVs... but rather EVs... expect quite a few to be revealed by 2020. But they will likely be sold only in markets with large government incentives.
In most of Europe, phevs wont get no incentives after next year or two, just EVs... so most manufacturers are thinking along those lines... in markets where there are no large incentives, there are no sales either.
04-28-18 | 01:58 PM
#759
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,518
Likes: 0
From: MD
Impatiently waiting for the Subaru PHEV for the wife.
I just think that the Lexus buyer might be keen on a PHEV. I do recall Lexus stating that they wouldn't be offering such a vehicle. ...given the number of MKZ hybrids that I see, I am surprised that they didn't offer an Energi option.
I just think that the Lexus buyer might be keen on a PHEV. I do recall Lexus stating that they wouldn't be offering such a vehicle. ...given the number of MKZ hybrids that I see, I am surprised that they didn't offer an Energi option.
04-28-18 | 02:02 PM
#760
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,626
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
According to Wiki, the 2GR-FKS combines the 2GR-FSE with a simulated Atkinson-cycle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine
Applications (calendar years):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine
2GR-FKS
The 2GR-FKS combines the D-4S system from the 2GR-FSE with the simulated on-demand Atkinson cycle used in the 2UR-GSE and 8AR-FTSengines. The intake camshafts are equipped with VVT-iW and the exhaust camshafts are equipped with VVT-i. In the Tacoma the engine specifications are 207 kW (278 hp) at 6000 rpm and 359 N⋅m (265 lb⋅ft) at 4600 rpm.[9] In the Lexus RX 350 the engine specifications are 220 kW (295 hp) at 6300 rpm and 362 N⋅m (267 lb⋅ft) at 4700 rpm respectively. In the Lexus IS350 and GS350 the engine specifications are 232 kW (311 hp) at 6600 rpm and 380 N⋅m (280 lb⋅ft) at 4800 rpm respectively.Applications (calendar years):
- 2016-present Toyota Tacoma (GRN305/310/325/330)[9] 214 kW (287 hp)
- 2015-present Lexus GS 350 (GRL12/16)[10] 232 kW (311 hp)
- 2015-present Lexus RX 350 (GGL20/25)[11] 220 kW (295 hp)
- 2017 Lexus LS 350 (XF50) 237 kW (318 hp) (China)
- 2017 Toyota Highlander (GSU50/55) 220 kW (295 hp)
- 2017 Toyota Sienna (GSL30/33/35) 221 kW (296 hp)
- 2017 Toyota Camry (GSV70) 224 kW (301 hp)
- 2017 Toyota Alphard (GGH30) 221 kW (296 hp)
- 2018 Lexus IS350 (XE30) 232 kW (311 hp)
04-28-18 | 02:06 PM
#761
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,687
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
I don't think ^^^ is the same analogy. I get what you are trying to say, but think we are far away from this.
04-28-18 | 02:42 PM
#762
04-28-18 | 02:52 PM
#763
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,128
Likes: 2,788
From: Maryland
04-28-18 | 02:54 PM
#764
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,375
Likes: 488
From: Ca
what other phev sedans with AWD are you looking at?
Lexus EU has clearly stated they wont do PHEVs... but rather EVs... expect quite a few to be revealed by 2020. But they will likely be sold only in markets with large government incentives.
In most of Europe, phevs wont get no incentives after next year or two, just EVs... so most manufacturers are thinking along those lines... in markets where there are no large incentives, there are no sales either.
Lexus EU has clearly stated they wont do PHEVs... but rather EVs... expect quite a few to be revealed by 2020. But they will likely be sold only in markets with large government incentives.
In most of Europe, phevs wont get no incentives after next year or two, just EVs... so most manufacturers are thinking along those lines... in markets where there are no large incentives, there are no sales either.
However I don't think 1st Gen EV will be that good.
By 2025, 2nd Gen EV will come.
2030 and 3rd Gen EV will be here.
Surely they'll have graphene batteries by then...
04-28-18 | 03:00 PM
#765
No matter what Lexus does, to some its just never good enough. The 1# most Reliable Brand? And as high as it is in Owner satisfaction. What is the Perfect car? Depends on the person.
Can tell from this Thread............ about another new Lexus. I keep wondering if the same car, but Thread title was the New 2019 BMW 3/5 Series. Or... MB C/E Class was the same car, what would be the responses if was not the ES but a different Brand? Sure there will be some neg rebuttal coming. You don't have to Buy a ES, or be happy as some are with one. ( Now putting on a Flame Retardant Suit).
Can tell from this Thread............ about another new Lexus. I keep wondering if the same car, but Thread title was the New 2019 BMW 3/5 Series. Or... MB C/E Class was the same car, what would be the responses if was not the ES but a different Brand? Sure there will be some neg rebuttal coming. You don't have to Buy a ES, or be happy as some are with one. ( Now putting on a Flame Retardant Suit).