All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
04-29-18, 10:44 AM
#781
Lexus Fanatic
LOL. The comparison stems from the fact that we're worried that we won't see a new GS and won't consider downgrading to an IS or ES (including the 7th gen) and it now seems our only option would be to upgrade to an LS (but at that price point, you're opening the door to a lot of great cars, many of which are not in the Lexus portfolio). How Lexus approaches building cars and the level of craftmanship/attention to detail that goes into their vehicles is exemplary. Having had 2 4GS models now, it's a pretty special car and is a unique blend of attributes that can't really be found elsewhere IMO, especially because of the Lexus qualities and craftsmanship that go into building it. I love the Lexus brand and would hate to leave it but feel like I may not have a choice. The current lack of confirmation that there will/won't be a new GS leaves many feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place when upgrade times comes around.
Sure, you can compare the two on the surface. They're both similarly sized 4 door sedans from the same automaker. In reality, the true enthusiasts already know there is no competition between the two and no comparison can truly be made. The ES, at least in it's current and past configurations, will never compete with the GS and I doubt anyone is worried about that taking place this time around.
Sure, you can compare the two on the surface. They're both similarly sized 4 door sedans from the same automaker. In reality, the true enthusiasts already know there is no competition between the two and no comparison can truly be made. The ES, at least in it's current and past configurations, will never compete with the GS and I doubt anyone is worried about that taking place this time around.
04-29-18, 01:58 PM
#782
LOL. The comparison stems from the fact that we're worried that we won't see a new GS and won't consider downgrading to an IS or ES (including the 7th gen) and it now seems our only option would be to upgrade to an LS (but at that price point, you're opening the door to a lot of great cars, many of which are not in the Lexus portfolio). How Lexus approaches building cars and the level of craftmanship/attention to detail that goes into their vehicles is exemplary. Having had 2 4GS models now, it's a pretty special car and is a unique blend of attributes that can't really be found elsewhere IMO, especially because of the Lexus qualities and craftsmanship that go into building it. I love the Lexus brand and would hate to leave it but feel like I may not have a choice. The current lack of confirmation that there will/won't be a new GS leaves many feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place when upgrade times comes around.
Sure, you can compare the two on the surface. They're both similarly sized 4 door sedans from the same automaker. In reality, the true enthusiasts already know there is no competition between the two and no comparison can truly be made. The ES, at least in it's current and past configurations, will never compete with the GS and I doubt anyone is worried about that taking place this time around.
Sure, you can compare the two on the surface. They're both similarly sized 4 door sedans from the same automaker. In reality, the true enthusiasts already know there is no competition between the two and no comparison can truly be made. The ES, at least in it's current and past configurations, will never compete with the GS and I doubt anyone is worried about that taking place this time around.
04-29-18, 03:23 PM
#783
I think the new ES is a good looking car and well executed overall, and that it should sell well in its traditional role/segment, but it is not a replacement for the GS.
I don't understand how the Germans can seemingly so quickly churn out multiple cars based on the same platform, but Lexus struggles. The have the new RWD global platform under the LS and LC, how hard or costly could it be to make a GS based on that. Not only that but other body style variants as well.
I don't understand how the Germans can seemingly so quickly churn out multiple cars based on the same platform, but Lexus struggles. The have the new RWD global platform under the LS and LC, how hard or costly could it be to make a GS based on that. Not only that but other body style variants as well.
TMC prefers to go straight to EV as the global motor industry is undergoing a transition to electrification.
There are rumours of a 4.0 V8 TT, but I'm sure Akio would rather bypass major ICE developments altogether.
The bypassing of low return on investment V8 TT & 5GS is to channel money and resources into electrification.
The 7ES on the other hand is cheap to develop, and sells in healthy numbers.
Plus Lexus already has two midsize luxury cars, so they can afford to axe one, to focus on electrification.
At the end of the day, the way Toyota Motor Corp does things, enables them to amass a net wealth of US$171 billion dollars, as opposed to Daimler AG's US$81 billion, BMW AG's US$61 billion, and Ferrari's paltry US$402 million dollars...
04-29-18, 03:40 PM
#784
I suspect that TMC "chooses" to skip the development of the 4.0L V8 TT & 5GS, because these two developments, especially the former are very costly, yet still provide little in returns.
TMC prefers to go straight to EV as the global motor industry is undergoing a transition to electrification.
There are rumours of a 4.0 V8 TT, but I'm sure Akio would rather bypass major ICE developments altogether.
The bypassing of low return on investment V8 TT & 5GS is to channel money and resources into electrification.
The 7ES on the other hand is cheap to develop, and sells in healthy numbers.
Plus Lexus already has two midsize luxury cars, so they can afford to axe one, to focus on electrification.
At the end of the day, the way Toyota Motor Corp does things, enables them to amass a net wealth of US$171 billion dollars, as opposed to Daimler AG's US$81 billion, BMW AG's US$61 billion, and Ferrari's paltry US$402 million dollars...
TMC prefers to go straight to EV as the global motor industry is undergoing a transition to electrification.
There are rumours of a 4.0 V8 TT, but I'm sure Akio would rather bypass major ICE developments altogether.
The bypassing of low return on investment V8 TT & 5GS is to channel money and resources into electrification.
The 7ES on the other hand is cheap to develop, and sells in healthy numbers.
Plus Lexus already has two midsize luxury cars, so they can afford to axe one, to focus on electrification.
At the end of the day, the way Toyota Motor Corp does things, enables them to amass a net wealth of US$171 billion dollars, as opposed to Daimler AG's US$81 billion, BMW AG's US$61 billion, and Ferrari's paltry US$402 million dollars...
Know one outside of Toyota knows if they are going the Turbo six route of Ford or for a twin turbo small displacement V8 setup. I doubt they will continue to stay naturally aspirated too much longer. Toyota falls in dead last place for truck and large SUV fuel economy and emissions.
With that being said I’m sure the development work used for their truck engines will trickle over to the Lexus family. So I wouldn’t count out a TTV8 all together yet. It will most likely be limited to the LC-F and rumored LS-F possibly the GS-F & IS-F. Internal combustion engines still have a good 20 years left in them imo. Not to 2032 or so will you completely see manufactures phase out their ICE development.
04-29-18, 04:39 PM
#785
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Good comments. I see you own a RWD GS. I don’t think there is going to be much of a market for a RWD GS in the US going forward.
04-29-18, 04:58 PM
#786
I suspect that TMC "chooses" to skip the development of the 4.0L V8 TT & 5GS, because these two developments, especially the former are very costly, yet still provide little in returns.
TMC prefers to go straight to EV as the global motor industry is undergoing a transition to electrification.
There are rumours of a 4.0 V8 TT, but I'm sure Akio would rather bypass major ICE developments altogether.
The bypassing of low return on investment V8 TT & 5GS is to channel money and resources into electrification.
The 7ES on the other hand is cheap to develop, and sells in healthy numbers.
Plus Lexus already has two midsize luxury cars, so they can afford to axe one, to focus on electrification.
At the end of the day, the way Toyota Motor Corp does things, enables them to amass a net wealth of US$171 billion dollars, as opposed to Daimler AG's US$81 billion, BMW AG's US$61 billion, and Ferrari's paltry US$402 million dollars...
TMC prefers to go straight to EV as the global motor industry is undergoing a transition to electrification.
There are rumours of a 4.0 V8 TT, but I'm sure Akio would rather bypass major ICE developments altogether.
The bypassing of low return on investment V8 TT & 5GS is to channel money and resources into electrification.
The 7ES on the other hand is cheap to develop, and sells in healthy numbers.
Plus Lexus already has two midsize luxury cars, so they can afford to axe one, to focus on electrification.
At the end of the day, the way Toyota Motor Corp does things, enables them to amass a net wealth of US$171 billion dollars, as opposed to Daimler AG's US$81 billion, BMW AG's US$61 billion, and Ferrari's paltry US$402 million dollars...
I still think the ES is taking a beating here a lot because of the disappointment of the GS probably ending.
Lets be honest about another thing here someone else said. If the GS held and kept up its own sales up? There was a GS450h, 350, TT, F Sport and, F. Least we forget all that Variety that others did not have. I still say the 4GS 460 V8 Only would have helped its identity and total sales. Low sales by any regular car model always get it ended. Nothing new here. To be so Great as expressed here. It sure didn't sell like it. Just saying.
04-29-18, 05:20 PM
#787
Source
Remember there are new powertrains via engines, transmissions, and updated AWD systems that are coming to Toyota and Lexus within the next few years. Some highlights include Direct Shift-CVT, Dynamic Force Engines, THS II (Toyot Hybrid System), and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD and E-Four 4WD Systems. How much of this comes to the 7ES we don't know.
04-29-18, 05:24 PM
#788
On top of the all new Lexus 7ES, TMC could quickly ready a 4.0 V8 TT and a 5GS onto the market - but this will cost $$$ - hence no US$171 billion dollars in net wealth...
04-29-18, 07:08 PM
#789
Lexus Test Driver
Driving today I say at least 10 4GS all in White or Silver and mostly all Fsports.
Half were the post refresh therefore people are BUYING them.
The main issue is Lexus has really cut production the last several months and there is almost no inventory.
GS has its shortcomings but I place a lot of blame on dealers, Lexus HQ and marketing for the low sales.
GS is not a cash cow thats why it gets lost in the shuffle.
But its really one of the Best Lexus models one can buy.
04-29-18, 07:32 PM
#790
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
04-29-18, 08:17 PM
#791
Racer
You are 100% wrong.
Driving today I say at least 10 4GS all in White or Silver and mostly all Fsports.
Half were the post refresh therefore people are BUYING them.
The main issue is Lexus has really cut production the last several months and there is almost no inventory.
GS has its shortcomings but I place a lot of blame on dealers, Lexus HQ and marketing for the low sales.
GS is not a cash cow thats why it gets lost in the shuffle.
But its really one of the Best Lexus models one can buy.
I think you hit the nail in the head with near-constant low inventory levels as well as extremely limited options/configurations. When I picked mine up in November, there were 2 to choose from. One in Atomic Silver (mine) and one in black. I could've gotten any color ES350 or ES300h that same day for comparison. It was quite literally next to impossible to get a GS F-Sport in RWD with triple beams on the west coast (without ordering) and settled for one without. Tons of AWD models throughout the US with them however. Don't even get me started on the impossibility of also finding one with rear wheel steering. Our '15 GS has it and I miss it every time I drive our '18 GS.
Last edited by signdetres; 04-29-18 at 08:21 PM.
04-29-18, 08:26 PM
#792
Lexus Champion
Both Daimler and BMW are only one-quarter the size of Toyota, and Ferrari is only 0.08% the size of Toyota.
You can, however, compare net wealth in terms of size, and by that count, Daimler and BMW and Ferrari are all better than Toyota:
- Daimler, at one-quarter the number of sales has a net worth of one-half of Toyota.
- BMW, at one-quarter the number of sales has a net worth of over one-third of Toyota.
- Ferrari, at 0.08% the number of sales has a net worth of 0.235% of Toyota.
04-29-18, 08:30 PM
#793
On the one hand, he decries boring cars, yet on the other hand, he is conservative when it comes to developing exciting 4.0 V8 TT & exciting 5GS - so that he can maintain TMC's global leadership in net wealth of US$171 billion dollars.
Contrary to TMC, Ferrari spends big to make a range of exciting cars, much to the damage of their net worth.
NB
The most important concept to understand may be that exciting vehicles seem to have very poor ROI!
High development costs, yet relatively modest sales volume.
Just look at how RR, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lamborgini, Maserati, and Ferrari have been bought out mainly by bread & butter car companies...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-29-18 at 08:49 PM.
04-29-18, 08:40 PM
#794
Again you are throwing numbers around out of context, without an understanding of where they come from or what they represent. You cannot just compare the net wealth of automakers as diverse in size as Toyota (10+ million vehicles sold in 2016), Daimler (about 2.5 million vehicles sold in 2016), BMW (about 2.4 million vehicles sold in 2016) and Ferrari (8000 vehicles sold in 2016).
Both Daimler and BMW are only one-quarter the size of Toyota, and Ferrari is only 0.08% the size of Toyota.
You can, however, compare net wealth in terms of size, and by that count, Daimler and BMW and Ferrari are all better than Toyota:
Both Daimler and BMW are only one-quarter the size of Toyota, and Ferrari is only 0.08% the size of Toyota.
You can, however, compare net wealth in terms of size, and by that count, Daimler and BMW and Ferrari are all better than Toyota:
- Daimler, at one-quarter the number of sales has a net worth of one-half of Toyota.
- BMW, at one-quarter the number of sales has a net worth of over one-third of Toyota.
- Ferrari, at 0.08% the number of sales has a net worth of 0.235% of Toyota.
However, China's GDP per capita is quite low.
No one compares automotive industry net worth per vehicle sold, probaby because it is of little significance.
Automotive industry net worth is automotive industry net worth.
It doesn't matter how many cars are produced.
Likewise, MacDonald's net worth is MacDonald's net worth.
No one calculates MacDonald's net worth per hamburger sold.
There is NO law that says that we cannot compare net worth.
Economists compare net worth on a daily basis.
04-29-18, 09:24 PM
#795
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Do you think Prseident Akio is contradicting himself?
On the one hand, he decries boring cars, yet on the other hand, he is conservative when it comes to developing exciting 4.0 V8 TT & exciting 5GS - so that he can maintain TMC's global leadership in net wealth of US$171 billion dollars.
On the one hand, he decries boring cars, yet on the other hand, he is conservative when it comes to developing exciting 4.0 V8 TT & exciting 5GS - so that he can maintain TMC's global leadership in net wealth of US$171 billion dollars.
Not sure what you're referring to with 4.0 v8 tt and 5gs are these just fantasies?
you keep going on about financial size, wealth as if that somehow means toyota has the 'best' vehicles... they may have the best market fit in terms of value, style, reliability, etc., but mcdonalds makes the most money in the burger business i presume and dominos and pizza, but their products are clearly not the best, just the best market fit.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 04-29-18 at 09:28 PM.