All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
05-03-18, 09:59 AM
#856
Lexus Fanatic
Actually my comment about them being out of touch with what their customers want has to do with styling, making cars too firm and sporty, not with making the ES what the ES is.
05-03-18, 10:02 AM
#857
Lexus Test Driver
Toyota/Lexus has come around with the NX series, 3 row RX, the new UX, and now the ES'19 update. They took care of the SUV needs first before sedans, and also revamped the line up on their truck platform. The past 3-4 years was a boring phase of the 7 year product cycle. It wasnt until 2016 that things started getting an uptick with final refinements + safety updates before the next generation is released.
The one failure of Lexus has been their internal dashboard and reluctance to change it until a new generation/redesign comes around. To be more specific - the ball was dropped on Apple Carplay and AndroidPlay. I point to Subaru's recent quick adoption within 1-2 years of a model re-design/update for their Outback and Forester.... eg Forester redesign came out in 2017, and in 2018 they add the Carplay capable display. If this was Lexus, this internal dash change would not occur for another 4-5 more years. One look at this list speaks volumes whether you are relevant to the next generation of car buyers or not ( https://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/available-models/ ) Lexus is missing a real opportunity here. Audi and BMW already has it on most cars they sell since 2017, and Mercedes since 2016. Either lead, follow or get out of business. '19 ES350 + '19 UX are finally following some current trends to be relevant to the largest market of car buyers today (smartphone owners). It won't be long before it reaches the rest of the product line up. The Subaru guys figured out what it meant to their bottom line and sales growth by having it versus a year without it. These small things do add up to be relevant.
The one failure of Lexus has been their internal dashboard and reluctance to change it until a new generation/redesign comes around. To be more specific - the ball was dropped on Apple Carplay and AndroidPlay. I point to Subaru's recent quick adoption within 1-2 years of a model re-design/update for their Outback and Forester.... eg Forester redesign came out in 2017, and in 2018 they add the Carplay capable display. If this was Lexus, this internal dash change would not occur for another 4-5 more years. One look at this list speaks volumes whether you are relevant to the next generation of car buyers or not ( https://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/available-models/ ) Lexus is missing a real opportunity here. Audi and BMW already has it on most cars they sell since 2017, and Mercedes since 2016. Either lead, follow or get out of business. '19 ES350 + '19 UX are finally following some current trends to be relevant to the largest market of car buyers today (smartphone owners). It won't be long before it reaches the rest of the product line up. The Subaru guys figured out what it meant to their bottom line and sales growth by having it versus a year without it. These small things do add up to be relevant.
A personal example: I rented a Camaro SS for a vacation trip once. And the only reason I used Apple Carplay was because I need a navigation. If my rental had a navigation, I would 100% not touch Apple Carplay.
While I think Apple Carplay/Android Auto is useless, I think car companies should offer it as an option and not build it into the price of the car. IE: Do what BMW/MB is doing - offer the Apple Carplay/Android as an option for a few hundred dollars. That way people that don't want it can save a few hundred dollar and people that want it can pay for it. To be honest, I would never waste my money buying Apple Carplay/Android Auto on a fully loaded BMW. I would be enjoying that amazingly refined iDrive system over the Carplay garbage.
The ES may Not be your cup of Tea, but most that Buy it like it, and that cannot be denied. Obvious from some post here, some cant be Satisfied, and even have some hate for Lexus/Toyota products. Stating the Camry is not up to par goes against all those Camry sales in a very, very Competitive class. You may hate the Camry, but........................ Lots Love the Camry just as it is, and appreciate the improvements in newer models, in spite of it Not being Stanced drive off the lots Track ready cars. LOL!
I agree with this. The Lexus ES doesn't need a F-Sport pack in my opinion. I get Lexus wants to push their F-Sport package but not every car needs one.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 05-03-18 at 10:05 AM.
05-03-18, 10:52 AM
#858
Pole Position
Yeah I get it Toyota is not Mitsu when it comes to turbocharging so I was expecting if they go ahead and turbo battletested big four banger it might give them advantage over 2 liter competition. Anyhow it would end up with a lot more torque than current V6.
My gripe with current V6 is laziness. It's simply an lazy engine. The only time it felt fast was in 2IS but ever since then I couldn't feel the fast no more like in 3GS and so on. Maybe it was down to insulation or something but for the love of God I couldn't wrap my head around how all those mags were able to run it to 60 in 5.5 seconds. Atkinson cycle really gave this engine a new life and from what I can tell fuel efficiency is on the same lever as turbo four Germans which is outstanding achievement.
05-03-18, 11:11 AM
#859
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
this thread has over 26000 views. over an ES... 
05-03-18, 11:45 AM
#860
Honestly I was really holding my breath for 2.5 Turbo
Yeah I get it Toyota is not Mitsu when it comes to turbocharging so I was expecting if they go ahead and turbo battletested big four banger it might give them advantage over 2 liter competition. Anyhow it would end up with a lot more torque than current V6.
My gripe with current V6 is laziness. It's simply an lazy engine. The only time it felt fast was in 2IS but ever since then I couldn't feel the fast no more like in 3GS and so on. Maybe it was down to insulation or something but for the love of God I couldn't wrap my head around how all those mags were able to run it to 60 in 5.5 seconds. Atkinson cycle really gave this engine a new life and from what I can tell fuel efficiency is on the same lever as turbo four Germans which is outstanding achievement.
Yeah I get it Toyota is not Mitsu when it comes to turbocharging so I was expecting if they go ahead and turbo battletested big four banger it might give them advantage over 2 liter competition. Anyhow it would end up with a lot more torque than current V6.
My gripe with current V6 is laziness. It's simply an lazy engine. The only time it felt fast was in 2IS but ever since then I couldn't feel the fast no more like in 3GS and so on. Maybe it was down to insulation or something but for the love of God I couldn't wrap my head around how all those mags were able to run it to 60 in 5.5 seconds. Atkinson cycle really gave this engine a new life and from what I can tell fuel efficiency is on the same lever as turbo four Germans which is outstanding achievement.
But yeah, It is pretty nice how GR settled well into TNGA and performs better in both speed and mpg despite slightly heavier car.
05-03-18, 11:48 AM
#861
Lexus Fanatic
05-03-18, 12:19 PM
#862
Pole Position
The GR performing well is probably due to the new transmission and software optimizations. Stick the good old 6speed on it and it will be bad again.
05-03-18, 12:39 PM
#863
Kinda dumb for them to not bring the 2.5t to the U.S. to power the heavier stuff like the next Highlander or even a base RX, IS or GS.
The GR performing well is probably due to the new transmission and software optimizations. Stick the good old 6speed on it and it will be bad again.
The GR performing well is probably due to the new transmission and software optimizations. Stick the good old 6speed on it and it will be bad again.
Why would they use 2.5t when they have V6 for that? For base engine and regular people NA V6 is way better choice than 4cly turbo. It is likely cheaper for TMC too. Now for overseas, lower stated consumption and lower city consumption of 4cly is going to be good but NA likes their V6's.
On the other hand, what I would like to see at Lexus is optional 3.5tt in RX and IS (and GS if it exists?) Why not? That would kick ****. Put it everywhere.
05-03-18, 12:40 PM
#864
drives cars
Kinda dumb for them to not bring the 2.5t to the U.S. to power the heavier stuff like the next Highlander or even a base RX, IS or GS.
The GR performing well is probably due to the new transmission and software optimizations. Stick the good old 6speed on it and it will be bad again.
The GR performing well is probably due to the new transmission and software optimizations. Stick the good old 6speed on it and it will be bad again.
So... a base IS with the 2.5t sounds very intriguing. The 2.0t is kinda underwhelming. Similarly, it does seem interesting to have an option for ES that's below the 3.5. I'd say most ES buyers don't care whether their car has 300 horsepower - but then again 2.5 liters and a turbo could surpass 300 easily.
Does anyone know the specs of the 2.5t?
05-03-18, 01:39 PM
#865
Pole Position
well they updated engine internals 2x since original, it is not software, it is hardware.
Why would they use 2.5t when they have V6 for that? For base engine and regular people NA V6 is way better choice than 4cly turbo. It is likely cheaper for TMC too. Now for overseas, lower stated consumption and lower city consumption of 4cly is going to be good but NA likes their V6's.
On the other hand, what I would like to see at Lexus is optional 3.5tt in RX and IS (and GS if it exists?) Why not? That would kick ****. Put it everywhere.
Why would they use 2.5t when they have V6 for that? For base engine and regular people NA V6 is way better choice than 4cly turbo. It is likely cheaper for TMC too. Now for overseas, lower stated consumption and lower city consumption of 4cly is going to be good but NA likes their V6's.
On the other hand, what I would like to see at Lexus is optional 3.5tt in RX and IS (and GS if it exists?) Why not? That would kick ****. Put it everywhere.
05-03-18, 01:40 PM
#866
Pole Position
Totally agree on the GR. Great engine, but never the most efficient.
So... a base IS with the 2.5t sounds very intriguing. The 2.0t is kinda underwhelming. Similarly, it does seem interesting to have an option for ES that's below the 3.5. I'd say most ES buyers don't care whether their car has 300 horsepower - but then again 2.5 liters and a turbo could surpass 300 easily.
Does anyone know the specs of the 2.5t?
So... a base IS with the 2.5t sounds very intriguing. The 2.0t is kinda underwhelming. Similarly, it does seem interesting to have an option for ES that's below the 3.5. I'd say most ES buyers don't care whether their car has 300 horsepower - but then again 2.5 liters and a turbo could surpass 300 easily.
Does anyone know the specs of the 2.5t?
05-03-18, 01:47 PM
#867
Lexus Test Driver
well they updated engine internals 2x since original, it is not software, it is hardware.
Why would they use 2.5t when they have V6 for that? For base engine and regular people NA V6 is way better choice than 4cly turbo. It is likely cheaper for TMC too. Now for overseas, lower stated consumption and lower city consumption of 4cly is going to be good but NA likes their V6's.
On the other hand, what I would like to see at Lexus is optional 3.5tt in RX and IS (and GS if it exists?) Why not? That would kick ****. Put it everywhere.
Why would they use 2.5t when they have V6 for that? For base engine and regular people NA V6 is way better choice than 4cly turbo. It is likely cheaper for TMC too. Now for overseas, lower stated consumption and lower city consumption of 4cly is going to be good but NA likes their V6's.
On the other hand, what I would like to see at Lexus is optional 3.5tt in RX and IS (and GS if it exists?) Why not? That would kick ****. Put it everywhere.
But the 3.5TT detuned from the Lexus LS will most definitely happen at some point. It'll trickle down to the top trims of the Lexus IS/RX at some point. I'm still hoping they make a new Lexus GS with the TTV6.
Totally agree on the GR. Great engine, but never the most efficient.
So... a base IS with the 2.5t sounds very intriguing. The 2.0t is kinda underwhelming. Similarly, it does seem interesting to have an option for ES that's below the 3.5. I'd say most ES buyers don't care whether their car has 300 horsepower - but then again 2.5 liters and a turbo could surpass 300 easily.
Does anyone know the specs of the 2.5t?
So... a base IS with the 2.5t sounds very intriguing. The 2.0t is kinda underwhelming. Similarly, it does seem interesting to have an option for ES that's below the 3.5. I'd say most ES buyers don't care whether their car has 300 horsepower - but then again 2.5 liters and a turbo could surpass 300 easily.
Does anyone know the specs of the 2.5t?
05-03-18, 02:10 PM
#869
And........ the Camary does what the Camary does, the ES does what the ES does. F Sport will do what it does. Guess how many Camary,s they Sold last year? LOL!
In spite of CL downing it’s Sporty appearance, non race track handling, and lack of 400 hp plus!
And now the Thread has turned into a TT Turbo Thread
In spite of CL downing it’s Sporty appearance, non race track handling, and lack of 400 hp plus!
And now the Thread has turned into a TT Turbo Thread
05-03-18, 02:16 PM
#870
Lexus Test Driver
Not to mention too much power to the front wheels is a disaster. The TNGA FWD platform is topped out in HP....will have to go AWD to accommodate more. 3.5L TT will be reserved for the RWD platform for some time.