Lexus would never build what you just described, here is why.

The 2019 ES is larger than the LS500 in regards to total interior volume. The ES is a lot less expensive than the LS. hypothetical let’s say Lexus did build your dream twin turbo ultra ES500. Conusmer would be able to walk into a Lexus Dealer and buy a $40k car with more room to stretch out than the LS and equal power to the LS for under $50k or $25,000 less than the ‘18 LS which already has it battles cut out with some of the best executive luxury cars in the world. The LS500 would now have its own family memeber nipping at its heels while fighting the A8, S560 etc.

My point is, the LS would experience sales cannibalization 10 fold. The LS would loose tremendous sales and pretty much have to be discontinued.

Yes I see you compared the C-class to the ES and they do compete to some extent both are their brands entry level luxury sedans. The reason the C63 was allowed to be created is because it’s has less interior volume than a Honda Civic, and therefore doesn’t really compete with the larger S-class in terms of size. The C63 doesn’t cannibalize sales at all with the larger S-class. The buyers of the S-class wants comfortable floating on cloud 9 ride, large interior and effortless power! The c63 owner wants a tight intimate car with great handling, road communication and ridiculous amounts of power on demand.

The two cars don’t collide therefore they can both exists happily ever after in the same showroom without any friction. C63 buyers won’t have interest in the S-class and S-class potential buyers won’t have any interest in the tiny c63. That’s wouldn’t be the case if Lexus was to build exactly you just described.

P.S. The GS-F nor the GS is going away.

Once again you follow my post with false claims and no receipts to back your claims aginst my post. I’ve never once stated in this digital furum that the 2019 ES wouldn’t impact the sales of the Lexus GS model. My argument has solely been there is a very large group of car enthusiast who actually appreciate a balanced and neutral handling medium sized luxury sport sedan with modern luxury amenities and Toyota reliability. These owners enjoy the feel of driving a european sport sedan, but don’t want to be associated with expensive repairs and maintenance issues. The only attribute the ES has in common with the GS is its Toyota reliability and the obvious chrome L attached to the grille.

The ES is much larger than the GS and has been so for 2 going on 3 generations!

The ES plows into corners like a elephant on rollerblades, while the GS encourages its driver to push into the corner even harder.

The ES shows many signs of cost cutting throughout its cabin, exterior and underbody to keep manufacturing cost low and profit margins high. The 4GS although no Bentley has one of the finest made and interiors in its segment and it’s suspension design is superior to it’s competitors from Europe.

The GS models biggest issue is it’s lack of unique and powerful powertrain options to further differentiate it from the entry level ES model.

The GS doesn’t need to grow any larger, it serves it purpose in the Lexus sedan lineup as the sole option for a consumer who enjoys driving spiritedly, and some would say a bit of exclusivity.

The ES serves its own purpose as the brands entry level car that gives consumers a nice taste of luxury for not a lot of money and the illusion of driving a LS while once again keeping development and manufacturing cost to a minimum and profit margins really high.


Yes you will have some cannibalizes of sales with a brand who sales FWD mediums-large cars along side RWD sport sedans.

Several other luxury brands have tried this badge engineering trick over the years and have ultimately decided to cancel the project because it was bad for the brands image and not a good look for the brands perception of true luxury.

Infiniti I35 was a badge engineered Nissan Maxima sold along side the similarly sized Infiniti M and G series. It equaled very high profit margins, but it tarnished the Infiniti brand image as a legitimate luxury car company.

The Cadillac XTS is a gusied up Chevrolet Impala sold as a Cadillac, it too hurts the brand image as a legitimate luxury car maker just trying to fill its pockets. This double edge sword hurts the sales of the brand new CT6 and CTS because it’s nearly as big and bigger than these two models and cost less to buy. The average consumer is looking for the most bang for buck deal. That’s the way many of our brains are wired me included. But Cadillac knows it can’t shake that image of being a illegitimate luxury car maker until it cuts ties with XTS, and that’s why they too have decided to cancel their FWD cash cow.

Hyundai’s new emerging Genesis Luxury brand has already told the press that they have no interest in rebadging the Sonata/Cadenza as a Genesis Luxury sedan.

I truly believe Toyota is too comfortable and greedy to do the same as Infiniti and Cadillac. They are too use to the unlimited cash flow returns they get by throwing some wood veneers and L badges on the Camry and Avalon.


My first really nice car was a Lexus ES300 I actually owned right it along side my 1992 Camry V6. This is no way a attack on the Lexus ES. It’s a very nice car for the money, but it is in no way shape or form competitive with the European competition.

That’s where the GS serves its purpose and that’s why I bought one instead of another Mercedes E-class or 5 series.

You talk with so much certainty as if you work within bellows of Toyota Motor Corporation. Assuming you do work for them, thanks for spilling the beans on their future product endeavors, but I doubt you work at Toyota and until I hear them say their putting up the white flag against Europe and Korea I’ll stick to my beliefs that Lexus is not giving up on the pursuit of being a legitimate luxury car manufacturer.

Lexus would never build what you just described, here is why.

The 2019 ES is larger than the LS500 in regards to total interior volume. The ES is a lot less expensive than the LS. hypothetical let’s say Lexus did build your dream twin turbo ultra ES500. Conusmer would be able to walk into a Lexus Dealer and buy a $40k car with more room to stretch out than the LS and equal power to the LS for under $50k or $25,000 less than the ‘18 LS which already has it battles cut out with some of the best executive luxury cars in the world. The LS500 would now have its own family memeber nipping at its heels while fighting the A8, S560 etc.

My point is, the LS would experience sales cannibalization 10 fold. The LS would loose tremendous sales and pretty much have to be discontinued.

Yes I see you compared the C-class to the ES and they do compete to some extent both are their brands entry level luxury sedans. The reason the C63 was allowed to be created is because it’s has less interior volume than a Honda Civic, and therefore doesn’t really compete with the larger S-class in terms of size. The C63 doesn’t cannibalize sales at all with the larger S-class. The buyers of the S-class wants comfortable floating on cloud 9 ride, large interior and effortless power! The c63 owner wants a tight intimate car with great handling, road communication and ridiculous amounts of power on demand.

The two cars don’t collide therefore they can both exists happily ever after in the same showroom without any friction. C63 buyers won’t have interest in the S-class and S-class potential buyers won’t have any interest in the tiny c63. That’s wouldn’t be the case if Lexus was to build exactly you just described.

P.S. The GS-F nor the GS is going away.