jz14

I don't want to derail this thread to be about the benefits of hybrids. Hybrids are great and Lexus/Toyota makes probably the best, reliable ones. However, as with any battery, it will always require replacement at some point. As noted by another member, the warranty can extend to 150K miles or 10 years in states like California. According to the link to the energy.gov site, it's important to note that while Tesla has an unlimited miles warranty, the # of years is just 8. In fact, the majority of manufacturers give 10 years or less on the battery warranty. Add to that, the hybrid system also has other components and it's own motor/s. Without getting into more details, I put hybrid systems and turbos in the same category; they are additional, often expensive, major components that will fail at some point that will make your car unusable until fixed. When people think about "Reliability", they sometimes think of Toyotas and Hondas back in the 90s when people go 200K to 300K miles without a problem. Those cars were not hybrids and didn't have turbos. These days, it comes down to your own expectations of what "Reliability" means. When manufacturers say certain systems last the "life of the car" it's because there is an expectation that you'll sell your car at a certain time. That certain time has shortened these days to around 6-7 years I believe.

So, if you're keeping your car for 10 years or less, don't worry about hybrids (just try to make sure they are within the warranty period specified by your state / manufacturer). Turbos are more risky as a lot depends on how you drive. Plus factory warranties and even extended warranties don't cover them for that long.

So let's talk about the situation about 10+ years and maybe 150K+ miles. So my Lexus RX (parents driving it now) has over 150K + miles and is 13+ years old. It still looks amazingly good and drives perfectly fine. While I hope to replace cars earlier than that, it's nice to know that I can keep driving a car and not have to worry that it's just going to fail and cost me a fortune to fix. I'd like to replace the car on my own terms and not when a known system will fail. Now imagine if there was a hybrid system or turbo. This is my exact situation with the BMW (turbo charged). When that system fails, which will happen, I can't even drive it and then I have to shovel out many thousands at a time when the car is worth only that much. The part that I think most people don't think about is that while new car options like the Mark Levinson, Triple LEDs, are in the thousands, you're spending around 50K for the car and often financing, so you may not mind. But even a few thousand dollar discounted hybrid battery when your car is only worth that much (or less) will make you think if you should turn in your car and get a new one.

I remember seeing that article about the 1 million mile LS on this site. If that car had a hybrid battery or turbo; not sure how many of those it would have to go through and the owner would have gotten rid of it much earlier than that.

mikemu30

I will avoid turbos as long as possible.

cwwplex12

In my case I'm considering the 2019 ES350 for the several reasons. I currently own a 2012 IS250 which I purchased new and it now has 112,000 miles.
The car has been flawless. I'm 66 years old and when I bought my IS at 60 I was probably one of the oldest owners of that model but I liked the sportiness of it.
Previously I've owned a few Cadillacs and three Honda Accords all of which I purchased new. The Hondas were also great reliable vehicles.
My experience with my IS250 convinced me after the first year of driving it that I would always own a Lexus rom now on. I love the quality of the materials and the quiet ride and solid feel when driving it.
As for the ES350 I wanted to upgrade to a larger more luxurious ride but was put off by that front grill on the 2016-2018 versions. I'm sure some people love it but I never did. I recently test drove a 2015 with a not so radical grill thinking maybe a CPO 2015 was a way to go.
I found a nice one but decided against it because I wanted to check out the 2019 hoping it would be a better design and I'm glad I did.
Although I haven't driven the 2019 yet I really like the sleeker design of the car and the grill I can probably live with. I sat in one at my Lexus dealer last weekend and the interiors I feel are a nice upgrade from the previous generation.
I'll take a test drive next month and will wait until December to buy one. The sales manager that sold my IS to me told me when I went over to check it out to "not buy it now". He knows I'm looking to get a better price than close to MSRP which is what they are offering for the early buyers. I'm in no rush. I still love my IS250 but after 6 years it's time for a change.

jz14

I second that! Hoping to directly go EV at some point.

jz14

We also feel the same after owning multiple brands.

Sulu

I would not put turbos and hybrids in the same category.

Yes, hybrids have electric motors but those seldom go wrong. And because of the parallel electric drivetrain, there is less wear and tear on other components: There is less wear and tear on the engine since it runs less, and there is less wear on the brakes due to regenerative braking. My 2015 ES 300h has had absolutely no drivetrain (engine, transmission, electric motors or battery) issues at all.

Turbocharged cars, on the other hand, place high temperature and high pressure loads on the engine. I plan on staying away from turbocharged models for as long as possible.

My 2015 ES 300h is my first Lexus and I am quite satisfied with it. I wish it had more small-item storage, like a dedicated area for a phone so that it does not take up a cupholder when charging; I wish it had a place for sunglasses; and I really wish it had a larger glove compartment.

I had some problems with doors and trunk-lid latching and staying closed one cold winter but those problems never recurred.

Fuel consumption has been about equal to my compact 2010 Corolla but it is a much larger car (2 sizes up from the Corolla) so I am quite happy with that.

I am considering the next-generation ES 300h (maybe not 2019 but may wait for 2020) for the even more efficient hybrid system and the larger trunk (but wish it had a fold-down rear seatback). I am however, concerned with the larger footprint -- wider and longer -- as I am concerned that it may not fit in my garage; I find my current ES to be quite long so would not mind something shorter. I hope to be able to get a 2019 ES as a loaner sometime when I take my car in for service so that I can take a closer look at it and try to fit it in my garage.

If I did not have need for the large rear seat (I regularly drive with 5 in the car), I would seriously consider looking at a smaller Lexus Hybrid (after driving a Hybrid for 4 years, I am not considering returning to a "normal" car).

MSterling

Sulu, Thank you for your insight. From your comments, have you seen any information regarding changes for 2020. Maybe I misunderstood. You referred to "even more efficient hybrid system and larger trunk". I would love to learn more of what Lexus is planning for 2020. I did learn that the Toyota Highlander is going to a new design for 2020, so I would assume the Lexus RX will as well.

jz14

The point I was trying to make was that the hybrid battery, like a turbo charger, is an eventual, potentially expensive (especially if you want new OEM battery), replacement that most likely won't make it past a certain amount of time (10-15 years). This is no different than a transmission, water pump or alternator. However, I do agree with you that hybrids put less stress on the engine vs what a turbo does. Eventually, all cars may be EV at some point and battery replacement will just be an expected thing.

BTW, I would be shocked if your 2015 ES300h had problems as it's within warranty and pretty much just broken in. I wouldn't be buying a Lexus if you had issues. I'm really talking about 10 to 15 years later.

That's exactly my concern as well. I just realized the other day after reading about Avalon vs Lexus ES that the ES is in fact exactly the same length as the Avalon and its longer than the Lexus RX-L! The Avalon was really big when we rented it for a trip a couple of months ago. My main concern with the current ES is the size. Why can't they just increase the interior room but make it not as long? I believe the ES is now longer than most of the competitors (German and Japanese ones for sure).

mikemu30

And Lexus advertises that as a selling point.

jz14

LOL! I saw that the other day using the car comparison tool.

Mike728

I'm not Sulu, but I'm sure this is in regards to the 2019 vs. the previous gen. hybrid. It's a little too early to be talking about the 2020.

wasjr

Re hybrid, I was leery about the batteries when we were looking at the 13 ES300h for my wife. The 8 yr warranty covers us as we usually keep her car 6-8 yrs. I also noted the large number of taxis that are Camry hybrids, which is the same setup.

We will probably look at the new ES (both 350 and 300h) in December, or next year. One positive about the 19 ES300h (in addition to the increase in mpg with oil prices going up) is that the location of the batteries has been moved. They take up 20% of the trunk space in my wife's 13, but are smaller and under the rear seats in the 19. Added safety features in the 19 also factor in to making a move.

Sulu

Thanks, Mike.

As 2020 would be only the 2nd model year of this new model, I don't expect changes other than minor trim and option changes (I don't what may or may not be coming). The changes I am interested in, namely the more efficient hybrid system and larger trunk, come with this new, 7th-generatiion model, compared to the 2013 to 2018 6th-generation model.

What I meant to say is that I may hold off purchasing a new ES until the 2020 model year. That will give me time to decide if I want this new, larger model (our garages here in Southern Ontario are rather small), and if I do want one, gives me time to see what mid-cycle changes Lexus may offer (such as AWD, Li-Ion rather than NMH battery, plug-in hybrid availability, etc.).

I don't find my 2015 ESh bloated or difficult to drive (despite its length) and I don't expect that this new 2019 ES will feel much different. It is just that it takes up a lot of room in my garage and is just that little bit more difficult to maneuver in (tight) parking lots.

Sulu

My sentiments exactly. I agree with everything you said about the ES Hybrid. Only Hybrids (or EVs) for me from now on. I will try to talk my wife into trading in her 2013 Honda Accord for a Lexus Hybrid.