2019 ES350 Best prices paid so far?
04-29-20 | 12:35 PM
#361
Driver
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 85
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From: Tennessee’
04-29-20 | 01:15 PM
#362
Driver
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 85
Likes: 6
From: Tennessee’
Below, I am pasting a post about a car buying method that I've posted here before. The key to finding out where the current market is and what the best prices available are is to get as many dealers as possible competing for your business. I've used this method with my own recent car purchases and, also, to help others who were buying cars. The results have been excellent every time. This is a fairly long read, but, for those who are now shopping for a car, I think it is worth taking the time to read it.
"I would start by selecting all of the Lexus dealerships within, say, 200 miles of your location. Even if you would be reluctant to travel that far to buy the vehicle, starting with a larger number of dealerships allows you to begin with more negotiating leverage. Then, send identical emails to the internet sales departments of all of those dealers.
In the email, make several things clear. First, tell them, in as much detail as you can, what vehicle you are looking for, what packages you want, and what major options you are interested in. Then, let them know that you are sending the same email to all of those dealers, that you are prepared to buy immediately, and that you will buy from the dealer that makes the best offer.
You will likely get proposals from most, but possibly not all, of those dealerships. Take the best offer, and send that to the other dealers that responded to your initial email, and ask them if they are interested in trying to beat that offer. Then, take the best of those second round offers and repeat the process. After repeating the same process a couple of times, within a couple of days you should have a very good idea about where the floor of the market is.
When you get down to 2 or 3 dealers, that is when you need to start looking at the offer proposals that they sent you very carefully to make sure that doc fees are reasonable, that processing fees for the title and license are reasonable, and that there are no hidden fees, dealer add-ons or options, etc.
If you have a trade-in, you should even be able to get a firm offer for that trade-in. First, use the websites of Edmunds and KBB to determine a fair value for your trade-in. Then, send pictures of your car to the dealership. If that dealership is really interested in getting your business, they will make a fair and firm offer on the trade-in. It is important, though, that you do not bring the trade-in into the discussion until after you have locked in an offer on the new vehicle.
An important part of the process is to get a price locked in for the new vehicle (and trade-in) via email and phone discussions before you set foot in the dealership. Until you have set foot in the dealership, you are the one who is in control of the situation. Once you are at the dealership and have started to negotiate a price at the dealership, you have given up a good portion of that control to the dealership.
I've found that dealerships are quite competitive with regard to internet sales. I've bought my last 2 vehicles using the method described above. I've found that that method is less stressful, and it has yielded prices that I could not have gotten by physically visiting multiple dealerships and negotiating pricing at the dealerships. I've come to believe that, with more traditional methods of buying a car, it isn't likely that I would ever know how low the floor of the market is. I'll never buy another car any other way."
"I would start by selecting all of the Lexus dealerships within, say, 200 miles of your location. Even if you would be reluctant to travel that far to buy the vehicle, starting with a larger number of dealerships allows you to begin with more negotiating leverage. Then, send identical emails to the internet sales departments of all of those dealers.
In the email, make several things clear. First, tell them, in as much detail as you can, what vehicle you are looking for, what packages you want, and what major options you are interested in. Then, let them know that you are sending the same email to all of those dealers, that you are prepared to buy immediately, and that you will buy from the dealer that makes the best offer.
You will likely get proposals from most, but possibly not all, of those dealerships. Take the best offer, and send that to the other dealers that responded to your initial email, and ask them if they are interested in trying to beat that offer. Then, take the best of those second round offers and repeat the process. After repeating the same process a couple of times, within a couple of days you should have a very good idea about where the floor of the market is.
When you get down to 2 or 3 dealers, that is when you need to start looking at the offer proposals that they sent you very carefully to make sure that doc fees are reasonable, that processing fees for the title and license are reasonable, and that there are no hidden fees, dealer add-ons or options, etc.
If you have a trade-in, you should even be able to get a firm offer for that trade-in. First, use the websites of Edmunds and KBB to determine a fair value for your trade-in. Then, send pictures of your car to the dealership. If that dealership is really interested in getting your business, they will make a fair and firm offer on the trade-in. It is important, though, that you do not bring the trade-in into the discussion until after you have locked in an offer on the new vehicle.
An important part of the process is to get a price locked in for the new vehicle (and trade-in) via email and phone discussions before you set foot in the dealership. Until you have set foot in the dealership, you are the one who is in control of the situation. Once you are at the dealership and have started to negotiate a price at the dealership, you have given up a good portion of that control to the dealership.
I've found that dealerships are quite competitive with regard to internet sales. I've bought my last 2 vehicles using the method described above. I've found that that method is less stressful, and it has yielded prices that I could not have gotten by physically visiting multiple dealerships and negotiating pricing at the dealerships. I've come to believe that, with more traditional methods of buying a car, it isn't likely that I would ever know how low the floor of the market is. I'll never buy another car any other way."
How does the COVID-19 situation impact negotiating tactics, if at al.
With the Georgetown, KY, plant being shut down, supply is impacted.
Thank you.
04-29-20 | 06:44 PM
#363
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,019
From: Illinois
When I have proposals from multiple dealers, it is fairly easy to compare them by adjusting the offers to take into account minor differences on how the cars are equipped. If they are trying to include dealer add-ons, like nitrogen filled tires, I will make it clear to the dealer that, if they want my business, the charges for those add-ons will need to be removed. Similarly, if their fees for doing things like processing the title and license plates are out of line, I'll make it clear, again, that those fees will need to be adjusted down if they want my business. With the doc fee, most states have laws that require the dealer to charge the same doc fee for every car they sell, but, if a dealer has a doc fee that is out-of-line, while the dealer may not be able legally to lower the doc fee, what they can do is to add a further discount from MSRP to their offer to compensate for the high doc fee, and, if the dealer really wants your business they will do so because they don't want to lose a sale over a high pure profit doc fee.
Once I've sent the best offer that I got to the other dealers and given them the opportunity to beat that deal and when I have done that a few times and feel confident that I've found the floor for the market, I'll bring my trade-in into the negotiations. Until that point I do not want the trade-in to be a part of any discussions. By that point, I will have done some research to figure out what a fair trade offer would be for my trade-in. If the dealer tries to low ball me on the trade in, I would have to consider whether I should, at that point, go back to one of the other dealers who sent proposals.
After everything else that is a part of the deal has been settled, I'll introduce one last item into the negotiations, and that is a complete paint protection film package with a high quality film. Normally, whether you get paint protection film either through the dealer or from an independent shop, it is a high mark-up item. If a dealer realizes that finalizing your deal depends on whether the dealer is willing to sell you the paint protection film with no profit or with very minimal profit, the dealer is not going to risk losing the deal just to make extra profit on the paint protection film.
While the Kentucky plant is shut down, yes, that does mean that the dealers are getting no new supply, but, with the overall COVID-19 situation, the dealers are struggling to find anyone who is willing to buy their cars. Depending on the price of the car, a dealer is typically spending $10-20 per day per car in financing charges for all of the cars in its inventory. If a car remains unsold for multiple months, that $10-20 per day financing cost is going to add up and have a significant impact on the dealer's bottom line. So, the current situation should be a buyer's market.
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05-01-20 | 01:16 AM
#364
Driver
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 70
Likes: 10
From: TX
Hello, first time posting on the forums, current Chevy Impala owner, (old fleet style) looking to buy a Lexus ES F sport. Blue Ultrasonic mica, triple beams, 10 inch screen, Mark Levinson system and hopefully lighted door sills and remote truck. Color I'm indifferent as long as I get those options haha. Anyway, I'm in Houston and there's really no F sport that I like, even new that I can find in TX. The one that I like is in MN, at a non-Lexus dealer. I'm not sure how buying a car, that you've never seen in person will be, but it's what I think fair market price (within NADA value) is and is being sold at it's first oil change (it was a fleet car).
Here's the link, just would like some input. I don't mind 2019 vs 2020 if the only difference is power mirrors, heck, I'm coming from an Impala, anything on a Toyota product is welcoming to me. But I like the price compared to a new, built 2020 and how this one is already available, where if Lexus doesn't have the style I want readily available and production is slimming down.
Thoughts, and hello. Hopefully soon I can post pics of an ES. Thanks y'all.
And not sure if rust would be a concern, I'm in SE TX where I've seen it "snow" once in my lifetime.
https://www.morries.com/inventory/us...bz1b16ku013670
Here's the link, just would like some input. I don't mind 2019 vs 2020 if the only difference is power mirrors, heck, I'm coming from an Impala, anything on a Toyota product is welcoming to me. But I like the price compared to a new, built 2020 and how this one is already available, where if Lexus doesn't have the style I want readily available and production is slimming down.
Thoughts, and hello. Hopefully soon I can post pics of an ES. Thanks y'all.
And not sure if rust would be a concern, I'm in SE TX where I've seen it "snow" once in my lifetime.
https://www.morries.com/inventory/us...bz1b16ku013670
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raiders3 (05-01-20)
05-01-20 | 09:11 AM
#365
Pole Position
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,696
Likes: 729
From: Idaho
The one that I like is in MN, at a non-Lexus dealer. I'm not sure how buying a car, that you've never seen in person will be, but it's what I think fair market price (within NADA value) is and is being sold at it's first oil change (it was a fleet car).
Here's the link, just would like some input. I don't mind 2019 vs 2020 if the only difference is power mirrors, heck, I'm coming from an Impala, anything on a Toyota product is welcoming to me. But I like the price compared to a new, built 2020 and how this one is already available, where if Lexus doesn't have the style I want readily available and production is slimming down.
Thoughts, and hello. Hopefully soon I can post pics of an ES. Thanks y'all.
And not sure if rust would be a concern, I'm in SE TX where I've seen it "snow" once in my lifetime.
https://www.morries.com/inventory/us...bz1b16ku013670
Here's the link, just would like some input. I don't mind 2019 vs 2020 if the only difference is power mirrors, heck, I'm coming from an Impala, anything on a Toyota product is welcoming to me. But I like the price compared to a new, built 2020 and how this one is already available, where if Lexus doesn't have the style I want readily available and production is slimming down.
Thoughts, and hello. Hopefully soon I can post pics of an ES. Thanks y'all.
And not sure if rust would be a concern, I'm in SE TX where I've seen it "snow" once in my lifetime.
https://www.morries.com/inventory/us...bz1b16ku013670
05-01-20 | 01:19 PM
#366
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 58
From: TN
Hello, first time posting on the forums, current Chevy Impala owner, (old fleet style) looking to buy a Lexus ES F sport. Blue Ultrasonic mica, triple beams, 10 inch screen, Mark Levinson system and hopefully lighted door sills and remote truck. Color I'm indifferent as long as I get those options haha. Anyway, I'm in Houston and there's really no F sport that I like, even new that I can find in TX. The one that I like is in MN, at a non-Lexus dealer. I'm not sure how buying a car, that you've never seen in person will be, but it's what I think fair market price (within NADA value) is and is being sold at it's first oil change (it was a fleet car).
Here's the link, just would like some input. I don't mind 2019 vs 2020 if the only difference is power mirrors, heck, I'm coming from an Impala, anything on a Toyota product is welcoming to me. But I like the price compared to a new, built 2020 and how this one is already available, where if Lexus doesn't have the style I want readily available and production is slimming down.
Thoughts, and hello. Hopefully soon I can post pics of an ES. Thanks y'all.
And not sure if rust would be a concern, I'm in SE TX where I've seen it "snow" once in my lifetime.
https://www.morries.com/inventory/us...bz1b16ku013670
Here's the link, just would like some input. I don't mind 2019 vs 2020 if the only difference is power mirrors, heck, I'm coming from an Impala, anything on a Toyota product is welcoming to me. But I like the price compared to a new, built 2020 and how this one is already available, where if Lexus doesn't have the style I want readily available and production is slimming down.
Thoughts, and hello. Hopefully soon I can post pics of an ES. Thanks y'all.
And not sure if rust would be a concern, I'm in SE TX where I've seen it "snow" once in my lifetime.
https://www.morries.com/inventory/us...bz1b16ku013670
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energy88 (05-01-20)
05-01-20 | 05:04 PM
#367
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 35
Likes: 2
From: TX
i'll add this, if you have any concerns about the condition of the es that you're looking at you can hire a vehicle checking service to inspect it for you. i used one to check out an our of state car that i was looking a for around $150 and they sent very detailed pictures along with a summary of the shape that the car was in. being that the car that you're looking at has very low mileage the odds of it having any problems should be low.
05-02-20 | 01:27 AM
#368
Driver
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 70
Likes: 10
From: TX
i'll add this, if you have any concerns about the condition of the es that you're looking at you can hire a vehicle checking service to inspect it for you. i used one to check out an our of state car that i was looking a for around $150 and they sent very detailed pictures along with a summary of the shape that the car was in. being that the car that you're looking at has very low mileage the odds of it having any problems should be low.
05-02-20 | 06:01 PM
#369
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 35
Likes: 2
From: TX
i don't have the name of the company that i used but i think i googled something like "used vehicle inspector" or "lemon checker" for the state that the car i was looking at was selling. the guy that i used made an appointment with the dealership to inspect the car and sent me more than one hundred and fifty pictures of the exterior, interior and engine bay. they also took a close up pictures of slight flaws like rock chips then took a full frame picture of the car to show where the flaws were. i was pretty satisfied with the job that he did.
05-03-20 | 07:59 AM
#370
Driver School Candidate
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: NC
Quick question. I've seen several people in this thread talk about how they've managed to get down to 12-15% or more below MSRP before incentives. How are they managing to do so? By that I mean, I've been spec'ing out some UL 350s by using the VIN on the Lexus site to see what options are installed and totaling up the invoice cost of the car + destination fee + invoice cost of all the options. In every case I end up with a total invoice cost that's maybe 6.5-7% below MSRP. To get to 12-15% below MSRP before incentives I'd be asking the dealer to sell the car for thousands below invoice. I mean, I don't have a problem asking them for that, but I'd like to have some way to back up what I'm asking for. What's the approach here?
05-03-20 | 08:23 AM
#371
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,019
From: Illinois
Quick question. I've seen several people in this thread talk about how they've managed to get down to 12-15% or more below MSRP before incentives. How are they managing to do so? By that I mean, I've been spec'ing out some UL 350s by using the VIN on the Lexus site to see what options are installed and totaling up the invoice cost of the car + destination fee + invoice cost of all the options. In every case I end up with a total invoice cost that's maybe 6.5-7% below MSRP. To get to 12-15% below MSRP before incentives I'd be asking the dealer to sell the car for thousands below invoice. I mean, I don't have a problem asking them for that, but I'd like to have some way to back up what I'm asking for. What's the approach here?
When the dealer buys a new car from the factory, there are various hold backs and other incentives that Lexus offers the dealers that reduce the dealer's cost to buy that car far below the invoice price.
That has always been the case, but, decades ago, the invoice price was, at least, somewhere in the ballpark of what the dealer actually paid for a car. That is not the case in recent times. At this point, the invoice price is, for the most part, meaningless and just a number that allows dealers to convince buyers into thinking that they are getting a great deal when, in fact, they are not.
Still another reality of today's auto market is that there are many opportunities for dealers to make a profit on a car sale beyond the profit that they make from the sale of the car itself. Dealers can make a significant profit when customers lease or when they finance through the dealership. And, if the dealer can sell the customer things like an extended warranty or a pre-paid maintenance plan or any number of other items, the profits that the dealer can realize can dwarf any profit made on the sale of the car.
If you are looking to find where the floor of the market actually is, check my posts earlier in this thread. In particular, check post #362 in this thread, which quotes one of my earlier posts and, also, post #363, in which I add more information.
Last edited by lesz; 05-03-20 at 09:14 AM.
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irishbrahm (05-03-20)
05-03-20 | 01:56 PM
#372
Driver School Candidate
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: NC
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was hoping maybe there was a more scientific method of finding the price floor? By that I mean, I don't think I've ever been able to tell a dealer "give me a price" and have him come back with something substantially below invoice that didn't involve rebates. Nor would I really expect them to given that most people think invoice is the true dealer cost. Maybe they'd beat an invoice price by a couple hundred bucks, but I just can't see me and several dealers having the patience to go around in circles for days incrementally working the number down to like $5K. So generally what I try to do is propose a price upfront that may be below invoice, but what would be the starting point is the question. Is it safe to assume that a dealer can still find invoice - (destination + holdback) to be acceptable as a proposed opening price? In the case of an ES350, that's something like $2K.
05-03-20 | 03:08 PM
#373
Lead Lap
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,086
Likes: 275
From: In your head
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was hoping maybe there was a more scientific method of finding the price floor? By that I mean, I don't think I've ever been able to tell a dealer "give me a price" and have him come back with something substantially below invoice that didn't involve rebates. Nor would I really expect them to given that most people think invoice is the true dealer cost. Maybe they'd beat an invoice price by a couple hundred bucks, but I just can't see me and several dealers having the patience to go around in circles for days incrementally working the number down to like $5K. So generally what I try to do is propose a price upfront that may be below invoice, but what would be the starting point is the question. Is it safe to assume that a dealer can still find invoice - (destination + holdback) to be acceptable as a proposed opening price? In the case of an ES350, that's something like $2K.
Invoice, MSRP are just numbers the general public have access to. I have seen dealers post on various places that its "insane" to expect less, and yet time and time again this has been proven wrong.
The first step though is to actually connect with a dealer who has unit you want and see where they are, and then compare.
05-03-20 | 04:13 PM
#374
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,279
Likes: 1,019
From: Illinois
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was hoping maybe there was a more scientific method of finding the price floor? By that I mean, I don't think I've ever been able to tell a dealer "give me a price" and have him come back with something substantially below invoice that didn't involve rebates. Nor would I really expect them to given that most people think invoice is the true dealer cost. Maybe they'd beat an invoice price by a couple hundred bucks, but I just can't see me and several dealers having the patience to go around in circles for days incrementally working the number down to like $5K. So generally what I try to do is propose a price upfront that may be below invoice, but what would be the starting point is the question. Is it safe to assume that a dealer can still find invoice - (destination + holdback) to be acceptable as a proposed opening price? In the case of an ES350, that's something like $2K.
Clearly, it is your choice as to how you want to go about buying a car, but, if you do what you are describing, you are virtually guaranteed not to come close to finding the floor of the market because dealers are not going to offer you prices close to that floor until they know that they have to do so because of competition from other dealers. And, when you make the opening offer, you are signaling to the sales person that he/she, in order to get your business, will be able to do so without making his/her best offer. Further, as I've said, you weaken your position when you walk into the dealership to do the negotiations. At that point, you turn over control of the situation to the dealer.
Again, the best way to create competition is to use the internet and phone to generate competition from various dealers, and you maintain maximum control because you are not in the dealership. As I've said, within a couple of days, this method will allow you to find the floor of the market.
Also note that there are always various unadvertised incentives that the manufacturer offers dealers, and those unadvertised incentives are constantly changing. Thus, the only way to find where the floor of the market is right now is by generating competition between dealers using a method similar to what I've described.
So, take your choice and do something similar to what I've described or do it your own way.
05-05-20 | 05:45 PM
#375
Driver School Candidate
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 24
Likes: 8
From: MN
Do you think one could negotiate a better deal with salesperson if you were to lead them to believe that they will be able to profit off you (tire/hazard insurance, gap insurance, PPF, etc.) when you finalize the deal in the finance manager's office? I don't buy any of the those add-ons. In the past, I may have stated that I'm not going to buy any of those add ons and that I do my own maintenance. The next time I buy, I think I may try to give them the impression that they can make more money off of me on the backend of the sales deal.