Oil changes - every 10,000 miles? Even the first??
#181
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The thing in the report that argue against that is the TBN. That oil is not worn, and has a huge reserve against oxidation. Today’s oils are massively more buffered than older oils that necessitated the time as well as mileage change interval. I can see from that report that oil is basically like new, given the Mg, Zn, P, B levels. If that represents six months of use, I’d leave it in at least another year. Then do another test as it will likely come out fine again.
The wear in hybrids from start-stop is massively over-rated. It is not a cold start each time. Also, starting and going under load vs. starting cold and idling is not the same - the latter is MUCH more wear. It is not the big deal it is made out to be, and oil analysis proves that.
The wear in hybrids from start-stop is massively over-rated. It is not a cold start each time. Also, starting and going under load vs. starting cold and idling is not the same - the latter is MUCH more wear. It is not the big deal it is made out to be, and oil analysis proves that.
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xmlstarks (03-03-24)
#182
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scubapr (03-01-24)
#183
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Has there ever been a correlation with doing oil chemistry tests and maintaining good engine health? Let's say you test every oil change, that one time you looked at the results and realized, oh snap I have to change my oil more often. Well by then it is too late isn't it.
#184
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Oil can easily handle the 10000 mile mark but these days the engines have a new problem and it is called oil dilution (especially the engines with high compression/direct injection/short trips). The engine will wear out very easily. The other problen is the small particles in oil which can wear the chain and other components because they are abrasive.
#185
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I think exactly like that.^^^^ I'm sure these new oils should last 10-15k+ miles easily but fuel dilution and metals during break-in period could be an issue on the long term. There should also be an "Engine Hours" odometer on cars so you change oil at X hrs or X miles whichever come first. In traffic the mileage is low but the engine is still running (not necessarily on hybrids) thus degrading the oil. Perhaps this is why the "Severe Conditions" in the manual specifies 6mo or 5K mi.
Based on the BlackStoneLabs study, my guess is that if I only do 5k miles in 2 years, technically the oil should be in similar wear-in condition as 5k in 6 months. Apparently now days, engines doesn't allow oil moisture easily. So in theory I could change my oil every 2 years in a similar scenario; although fuel dilution will be higher due to low millage use.
Of course, my car is new and has complementary services (free) for 4 years. So every 12 months or 10k mi they will change the oil for free for the next 4 years. I would only need to pay for those intermediate 6mo/5k oil changes; and it's cheap insurance for a long keeper. Anyway, I'm still wandering if I arrive at the 6mo/5k interval with only 2-3k (hybrid miles) in the oil will that change still make sense.
Based on the BlackStoneLabs study, my guess is that if I only do 5k miles in 2 years, technically the oil should be in similar wear-in condition as 5k in 6 months. Apparently now days, engines doesn't allow oil moisture easily. So in theory I could change my oil every 2 years in a similar scenario; although fuel dilution will be higher due to low millage use.
Of course, my car is new and has complementary services (free) for 4 years. So every 12 months or 10k mi they will change the oil for free for the next 4 years. I would only need to pay for those intermediate 6mo/5k oil changes; and it's cheap insurance for a long keeper. Anyway, I'm still wandering if I arrive at the 6mo/5k interval with only 2-3k (hybrid miles) in the oil will that change still make sense.
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#186
Instructor
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I agree with a whole lot of what is being said here but does it make a difference. Rings, bearings, seals and anything oil touches is affected with rings bearing the brunt of a neglected engine which can be seen by cars burning oil going down the road. In the oil days it was quite common to see smoke coming from cars almost every day. Today I think I may see 1 every 2 months and I am sure it is a small percentage that change there oil early out of the thousands of cars I see everyday. Technology is what changed this.
My personal experience is with two other vehicles besides my 2020 ES300h. I still have my 2001 LS430 UL with 185000 miles and valve cover leaking slightly but no burning oil and between oil changes only down around 3/16 inch. Gas mileage on highway is 25 down from 26 only because switched to 87 octane gas years ago. Performance is exactly the same as when I switched fuel. My 2008 Tundra has 148000 miles with very little visible change on dip stick between oil changes. Performance and gas mileage have stayed consistent after break in period. I use manufacturers recommendations. When I say no burning oil I mean no apparent evidence because there is always a minute amount that slips by.
My personal experience is with two other vehicles besides my 2020 ES300h. I still have my 2001 LS430 UL with 185000 miles and valve cover leaking slightly but no burning oil and between oil changes only down around 3/16 inch. Gas mileage on highway is 25 down from 26 only because switched to 87 octane gas years ago. Performance is exactly the same as when I switched fuel. My 2008 Tundra has 148000 miles with very little visible change on dip stick between oil changes. Performance and gas mileage have stayed consistent after break in period. I use manufacturers recommendations. When I say no burning oil I mean no apparent evidence because there is always a minute amount that slips by.
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scubapr (03-02-24)
#187
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Understand, just quoting Toyota's factory warranty by mistake. Lexus is higher for a reason and we pay for it. LOL
#188
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Thanks! My first 2 changes were done to get out most of the initial engine break-in wear metals (Iron, Copper, Si). As soon as I get my new report I'll compare the metals reduction given the almost same 1,300mi interval. I'll probably keep under the severe conditions 5k/6M int. unless I'm under 2,000mi oil @ 6M then 1yr.
Good for you, smart stuff.
#189
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I have 120K miles on my 2001 Tundra. I've done synthetic oil changes with premium filters every 5K miles, or 12 mo. I never take short trips, or even move a vehicle a short distance, without driving it up to operating temp. I replaced the Tundra's valve cover gaskets recently and was pleasantly surprised to find the valve train looked shiny-brand-new, and there was zero varnish inside the covers. I burn no oil between changes and the 2UZ runs and revs like a dream. Not bad for a 23-year-old truck!
I expect this kind of outcome from a Toyota or Lexus that gets regular maintenance. I've been driving Toyotas since 1980 and Lexus vehicles since 2011, and have stuck with 5K oil changes. So far, none of these vehicles have ever noticeably burned any oil. My Honda and Chevy, on the other hand, burned oil in spite of 5K changes!
Toyota has accomplished an incredible feat in designing and building engines that don't burn oil. One simply has to do their part to maintain their Toyota/Lexus to reap the benefit.
I expect this kind of outcome from a Toyota or Lexus that gets regular maintenance. I've been driving Toyotas since 1980 and Lexus vehicles since 2011, and have stuck with 5K oil changes. So far, none of these vehicles have ever noticeably burned any oil. My Honda and Chevy, on the other hand, burned oil in spite of 5K changes!
Toyota has accomplished an incredible feat in designing and building engines that don't burn oil. One simply has to do their part to maintain their Toyota/Lexus to reap the benefit.
#190
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To be fair again, you'll have lots of guys from all sorts of brands who both swear their car doesn't burn oil and those who say they do. Including Honda, who makes great engines.
But your point taken is changing your oil frequently is always better than not, regardless of brand. These oil threads on all brands always go forever because it's one issue guys can latch onto and have control over. On the BMW boards I was on, these threads would go on forever and ever. LOL.
It's simple though.
Change oil more>change oil less. Only downside=extra cost of the oil. I go with this method (if I drive an ICE car) because time machines don't exist!
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xmlstarks (03-07-24)
#191
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Related to topic. What is your opinion? I have a 2022 ICE ES350. Picked it up in late 2022 with 1,800ish miles. Had the complimentary oil changed in March 2023 (1 year from when car was sold to first owner) with approximately 2000 miles on the odometer. Not a daily driver by any stretch. It's now March of 2024 and the car has 2,800 miles on it (800 miles in the last year). Would you recommend an annual oil change regardless of miles?
#192
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Related to topic. What is your opinion? I have a 2022 ICE ES350. Picked it up in late 2022 with 1,800ish miles. Had the complimentary oil changed in March 2023 (1 year from when car was sold to first owner) with approximately 2000 miles on the odometer. Not a daily driver by any stretch. It's now March of 2024 and the car has 2,800 miles on it (800 miles in the last year). Would you recommend an annual oil change regardless of miles?
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xmlstarks (03-07-24)
#193
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From consumer reports: It’s not just about miles: If you don’t drive your car a lot, your oil still needs to be kept fresh. Even if you drive fewer miles each year than your automaker suggests for changing the oil (say, 6,000 miles, with suggested oil-change intervals at 7,500 miles), you should still be getting that oil changed twice a year.
Note: TWICE per year.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ice%20a%20year.
Note: TWICE per year.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ice%20a%20year.
#194
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From consumer reports: It’s not just about miles: If you don’t drive your car a lot, your oil still needs to be kept fresh. Even if you drive fewer miles each year than your automaker suggests for changing the oil (say, 6,000 miles, with suggested oil-change intervals at 7,500 miles), you should still be getting that oil changed twice a year.
Note: TWICE per year.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ice%20a%20year.
Note: TWICE per year.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ice%20a%20year.
“Your owner’s manual has more detailed information about your car than any mechanic does,” Ibbotson says. “Don’t get talked into too-often oil changes. Follow the manual and your car’s engine should stay well-lubricated and perform well.”
Since the Lexus Services Guide includes time intervals for oil changing that covers Consumer Reports' "keeping the oil fresh" advisement.
#195
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Absolutley yes. Not because of the miles but because of the passage of one year. Waiting past that one year point could be used by Lexus to invalidate your warranty. 10,000 miles or one year, which ever comes FIRST. I personally do 5,000 miles or 6 months, which ever comes first but that’s a personal thing. Get your oil and filter changed ASAP.
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dklanecky1 (03-08-24)