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Related to topic. What is your opinion? I have a 2022 ICE ES350. Picked it up in late 2022 with 1,800ish miles. Had the complimentary oil changed in March 2023 (1 year from when car was sold to first owner) with approximately 2000 miles on the odometer. Not a daily driver by any stretch. It's now March of 2024 and the car has 2,800 miles on it (800 miles in the last year). Would you recommend an annual oil change regardless of miles?
Since you had a complementary oil change for a used Lexus, am I correct in assuming you bought it as an L/Certified Lexus?
If so, you have one more complementary oil change since L/Certified doubles the number/period that one gets complementary services with a new Lexus. From the (US) Lexus LexusCare web page:
Every new Lexus includes first and second scheduled maintenance services,* while every L/Certified Lexus receives an enhanced level of care with four included maintenance visits.*
(second) * Plan covers next basic factory-recommended maintenance services for 2 years or 20,000 miles, whichever comes first, after lease/purchase date. See Lexus dealer for details.
I don't care about the context, it's 5,000 miles or six-months regardless of mileage IMHO. Oil & Filters are cheap, engines; especially GDI engines are expensive. Thank God mine does not have a stinkin turbo. All the turbo does is give Toyota the mileage ratings and boosted horsepower for CAFE ratings. They (Toyota and Lexus) need to bring back naturally aspirated engines (4 and 6 cylinder) mated to the new hybrid max drivetrain for the win. Just my two cents.
From consumer reports: It’s not just about miles: If you don’t drive your car a lot, your oil still needs to be kept fresh. Even if you drive fewer miles each year than your automaker suggests for changing the oil (say, 6,000 miles, with suggested oil-change intervals at 7,500 miles), you should still be getting that oil changed twice a year.
Note: TWICE per year.
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That is what I would do. Just because the engine has not run, does not mean the engine oil is unaffected by time. The two obvious reasons for that, is exposure to the air, and moisture from the air. Engine oil has anti-oxidants added in, but regardless of oil quality even those wear out. And at best the anti-oxidants in the oil only lengthens the time required, before oil is affected by oxidation from exposure to the air. And along with that air comes moisture along with it; and as oil refiners have yet to invent an additive that can somehow neutralize moisture in the air, this too affects the oil with time.
If you've ever seen the inside of an engine, you can't fail to notice the large number of uncoated bare metal surfaces inside. From the camshafts to the cylinder walls, most of the moving parts are bare metal. And everybody knows what happens to bare metal exposed to air, especially damp air: it rusts or corrodes. Not changing your oil for a whole year allows a lot of moisture to build up inside the engine and in the oil, and that's the environment your internal engine parts "live in". If it's bad for people it's usually even worse for engines.
That thought is what I have if I don't change the oil in my LS460 for too long, and it sometimes motivates me to change it even if I don't have the mileage for it yet.
That is what I would do. Just because the engine has not run, does not mean the engine oil is unaffected by time. The two obvious reasons for that, is exposure to the air, and moisture from the air. Engine oil has anti-oxidants added in, but regardless of oil quality even those wear out. And at best the anti-oxidants in the oil only lengthens the time required, before oil is affected by oxidation from exposure to the air. And along with that air comes moisture along with it; and as oil refiners have yet to invent an additive that can somehow neutralize moisture in the air, this too affects the oil with time.
If you've ever seen the inside of an engine, you can't fail to notice the large number of uncoated bare metal surfaces inside. From the camshafts to the cylinder walls, most of the moving parts are bare metal. And everybody knows what happens to bare metal exposed to air, especially damp air: it rusts or corrodes. Not changing your oil for a whole year allows a lot of moisture to build up inside the engine and in the oil, and that's the environment your internal engine parts "live in". If it's bad for people it's usually even worse for engines.
That thought is what I have if I don't change the oil in my LS460 for too long, and it sometimes motivates me to change it even if I don't have the mileage for it yet.
I'm not disputing the concept of what you said but I have not seen data that supports it. Sure Valvoline and Castrol speak to your points related to the oil's age (not miles) "moisture, oxidation" but I have yet to see evidence. Wait, oh yea they sell motor oil.
Contrarily, I have seen test results showing after more than 1 year with low miles, there is zero water in the oil and the oil is still well within it's specifications.
Changing it twice a year is the safe thing to do, "oil is cheaper than an engine", but I'd like to see a test case where oil was degraded based on age alone.
As Engineers like to say: Follow the Data!
I agree with hotwings. Car owners can err on the side of caution and change their oil after 1-2K in 6 months if that's what floats their boat, but the science and data don't back them up. One can't ignore the context. Oil doesn't oxidize very quickly, especially with low miles, and if one isn't committing the sin of short cycling the engine (not bringing it to normal operating temp after every start) it makes no sense to change it at 6 mo (especially when using premium oil and filters).
Last edited by Wilson2000; 04-05-24 at 01:37 PM.
Reason: typo
In my previous posts I mentioned does it really make a difference if change oil early. Saw an interesting car care nut you tube video. He said for the first 100k miles you could get by with very little maintenance. For the 1 to 200k if followed manufacturers maintenance you would see very little difference. It was the 200k to 400k where you would reap the benefits of changing oil early from beginning. Now that makes sense to me.
In my previous posts I mentioned does it really make a difference if change oil early. Saw an interesting car care nut you tube video. He said for the first 100k miles you could get by with very little maintenance. For the 1 to 200k if followed manufacturers maintenance you would see very little difference. It was the 200k to 400k where you would reap the benefits of changing oil early from beginning. Now that makes sense to me.
That could very well be but I wonder what small percentage of us keep our cars long enough from their “birth” to 200k to 400k miles? My guess would be less than 5%.
That could very well be but I wonder what small percentage of us keep our cars long enough from their “birth” to 200k to 400k miles? My guess would be less than 5%.
Right that is why I said what difference does it really make and for most of us none. I am sure a dealer would not give you a penny extra for your car for early oil changes. My 2001 LS430 UL which I still have has 185k miles and I see no difference in power or mpg.
I've been meaning to show you guys this video, Lake Speed Jr. I know I know just another video with a guy saying something. However this guy is extremely respected in the top top engine builders as well as worked for big OEMs. he is a certified oil tribologist and eats, sleeps, and breathes oil science. He only speaks when backed with data. Long story short? Do your break in oil changes less than 1k miles, and do 5k changes after that -- exactly what ive been shouting to people for over 15 years on forums of various makes.
He does a lot of interesting videos as well including on the 0w-8 topic.
Recently received my 2nd oil change analysis. I did my first break-in change at 4month / 1,300 miles. The second was at 6 month / 2,694 (1,394 additional miles). I'm low mileage driver, but in so few miles you can see the < 50+% average decrease in wear-in metals; basically using the same 1,300 mile interval. Maybe this is a low number of combined metals, but nevertheless I prefer them out of the engine instead of been there probably causing additional unnecessary wear for 10,000 miles.
My next service interval is by August (12mo), and I expect probably between 3,000-4,000 miles of oil interval and 3rd analysis scheduled.
Change your oil ever 5,000 miles that works out to $2,000-$3,000 spent after 200,000 miles that is ultra cheap insurance. For context you'll spend about $25,000 just in gas to drive 200K miles.
03-08-24, 10:54 AM
