Oil changes - every 10,000 miles? Even the first??
10-07-23, 11:40 PM
#61
Yes, you should change it every year even if you drove it 500 miles, mosty because of the condensation.
When we talk about clean oil after 10000 miles, I agree there’s no sludge but there is a big amout of raw fuel which is very bad for the engine.
10-08-23, 05:44 AM
#62
Intermediate
You missed the point that there is no single rule that applies to all. For some folks driving 10k is perfectly fine, but for others its not. The owner manual recommends 5k for severe service.
As it was explained before, it all depends on individual driving patterns, highway, idling, cold starts in freezing temp and etc. Invest time into oil testing and seeing if you qualify for severe service or not. This is all just speculation if you have no data that is specific to your usage.
As it was explained before, it all depends on individual driving patterns, highway, idling, cold starts in freezing temp and etc. Invest time into oil testing and seeing if you qualify for severe service or not. This is all just speculation if you have no data that is specific to your usage.
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tolian21 (10-08-23)
10-08-23, 10:33 AM
#63
Instructor
It's not that straightforward. Just because someone only drives only 2,000 miles per year doesn't automatically mean there is a "big amount of raw fuel" in the oil. The fuel gets burned off if you drive for at least 30-60 minutes on the highway. It's only an issue if you do loads of short trips with no longer drives. I did some oil analysis years ago under both scenarios and I can confirm even going for one long drive before the oil change makes a difference in lowering the fuel amount in the oil. Now that I'm thinking about it I should try to see if I still have the paper in a folder somewhere.
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Marc780 (12-02-23)
10-08-23, 02:59 PM
#64
Somebody that drives 2000 miles annualy is probably doing short trips.
Now, tell me, how you burn the raw fuel inside the oil pan/oil?
Now, tell me, how you burn the raw fuel inside the oil pan/oil?
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Marc780 (10-24-23)
10-09-23, 08:25 AM
#65
Intermediate
It's funny how the oil companies put a lof of effort into producing and promoting oil for higher mileage/longer OCIs, and yet seem to offer little in the way of oil specifically aimed at lower mileage/short trip drivers. Maybe they don't feel the need, or maybe it's technically difficult/impossible, but I'm sure there are a lot of owners who would like an oil that offers at least 12 month intervals for short trip users.
Maybe this discussion, and the different use cases, experiences and opinions highlight one of the inherent limitations of the internal combustion engine, which is, after all, pretty old technology now. I'm not a fan of enforced changes, especially when there are questions over their merits, but it seems that with their lower maintenance requirements, that an EV would be more suitable for many drivers. Especially those with low mileage requirements. That's a separate topic though, and just a rambling thought that popped up whilst thinking about this subject.
I think the best the average person can do is use good quality synthetic oil and stick at or within manufacturer guidleines for their type of usage, and those who wish to go over and above that should carry on doing so. My guess, at least with most modern engines and oils, is that people's cars will die from a variety of other causes, long before the engine gives out solely due to how often the oil is changed, assuming sensible intervals and a lack of extreme use cases.
Just my opinion though.
Maybe this discussion, and the different use cases, experiences and opinions highlight one of the inherent limitations of the internal combustion engine, which is, after all, pretty old technology now. I'm not a fan of enforced changes, especially when there are questions over their merits, but it seems that with their lower maintenance requirements, that an EV would be more suitable for many drivers. Especially those with low mileage requirements. That's a separate topic though, and just a rambling thought that popped up whilst thinking about this subject.
I think the best the average person can do is use good quality synthetic oil and stick at or within manufacturer guidleines for their type of usage, and those who wish to go over and above that should carry on doing so. My guess, at least with most modern engines and oils, is that people's cars will die from a variety of other causes, long before the engine gives out solely due to how often the oil is changed, assuming sensible intervals and a lack of extreme use cases.
Just my opinion though.
10-09-23, 11:55 PM
#66
If you are only keeping your car for 5 or 6 years, the recommended oil change interval of 12 months/10K miles is fine and will get you through the powertrain warranty. If you plan on keeping your Lexus for, say 10 years or more its suggested, you change the oil every 6 months or 5K miles. I recommend everyone here watch some of the Youtube videos from the "Car Care Nut". He is a longtime Master Toyota mechanic and has torn down toyota/lexus engines and shows what kind of condition they are in and compares engines who had factory recommend oil changes and the ones who changed the oil more often. This guy really knows what he is doing and it's a great channel for learning about your cars. Be prepared for oil consumption problems in the future if you stick to the Lexus recommended oil interval and keep your car for the long term!
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LexFinally (10-14-23)
10-10-23, 04:42 AM
#67
Pole Position
If you are only keeping your car for 5 or 6 years, the recommended oil change interval of 12 months/10K miles is fine and will get you through the powertrain warranty. If you plan on keeping your Lexus for, say 10 years or more its suggested, you change the oil every 6 months or 5K miles. I recommend everyone here watch some of the Youtube videos from the "Car Care Nut". He is a longtime Master Toyota mechanic and has torn down toyota/lexus engines and shows what kind of condition they are in and compares engines who had factory recommend oil changes and the ones who changed the oil more often. This guy really knows what he is doing and it's a great channel for learning about your cars. Be prepared for oil consumption problems in the future if you stick to the Lexus recommended oil interval and keep your car for the long term!
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LS500Fan (10-10-23)
10-10-23, 06:06 AM
#68
Intermediate
If you are only keeping your car for 5 or 6 years, the recommended oil change interval of 12 months/10K miles is fine and will get you through the powertrain warranty. If you plan on keeping your Lexus for, say 10 years or more its suggested, you change the oil every 6 months or 5K miles. I recommend everyone here watch some of the Youtube videos from the "Car Care Nut". He is a longtime Master Toyota mechanic and has torn down toyota/lexus engines and shows what kind of condition they are in and compares engines who had factory recommend oil changes and the ones who changed the oil more often. This guy really knows what he is doing and it's a great channel for learning about your cars. Be prepared for oil consumption problems in the future if you stick to the Lexus recommended oil interval and keep your car for the long term!
My car is 13 years old and over 110k miles, and only ever had annual oil changes. In fact its prior history suggests that it even missed an oil change during covid, which resulted in a possible gap of over 20k miles, and it doesn't lose a drop of oil between changes, and samples have tested fine. It still runs like new, and Lexus even inspected it a couple of years ago and approved it for an extended waranty to 15 years. Now, I'm not saying that my one example is any more proof of annual/10k changes being fine, than CCN's video saying they're not. Both are just anecdotal examples that don't prove anything beyond saying that there's no defintive evidence either way.
10k/annual changes are the norm in the UK and I don't see lots of people on the UK forum complaining of high oil consumption and premature engine failure, many of whom have older cars. In fact for the most part they praise the cars for their reliability.
I can however see how changing oil should be based on things like how and where the car is used/driven, as well the kind of oil used, which might require more frequent changes, but I can't see any demonstrable case for arbitrarily changing oil every 6 month/5k, as long as good quality synthetic oil is used, and the car is subject to normal driving conditions. I think it's great when people want to look after their cars and make them last, and feel that more regular oil changes will help them do that. I'm less convinced though by arguments that suggest others will ruin their cars if they don't follow the same path, without better evidence to back it up.
10-10-23, 08:43 AM
#69
Do you have a link for the Warranty and Services Guide? I can't find it anywhere on-line, even when I create a lexus account.
10-10-23, 08:51 AM
#70
There is always somebody like you in the crowd! My guess you have never even watched any of his videos! He has repaired MANY Toyotas with oil consumption issues, and they are always related to people not changing their oil often enough! You want to continue changing your oil at the factory recommended intervals then be my guest. People LIKE YOU are why people are hesitant to post messages in public forums. We always have known it all's who think they know everything and are fast to criticize others for their ideas and other information that might be helpful to others!
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10-10-23, 08:53 AM
#71
There is always somebody like you in the crowd! My guess you have never even watched any of his videos! He has repaired MANY Toyotas with oil consumption issues, and they are always related to people not changing their oil often enough! You want to continue changing your oil at the factory recommended intervals then be my guest. People LIKE YOU are why people are hesitant to post messages in public forums. We always have known it all's who think they know everything and are fast to criticize others for their ideas and other information that might be helpful to others!
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10-10-23, 08:55 AM
#72
I've watched some of the Car Care Nut, and think his videos are useful and informative. However, whilst I know he did one video where he showed an engine that had 10k changes, that was just one car and who knows how it was driven or what else might have occured, and so I'm not aware that he's demonstrated that factory OCIs cause engines to fail more often than 6 month/5k changes.
My car is 13 years old and over 110k miles, and only ever had annual oil changes. In fact its prior history suggests that it even missed an oil change during covid, which resulted in a possible gap of over 20k miles, and it doesn't lose a drop of oil between changes, and samples have tested fine. It still runs like new, and Lexus even inspected it a couple of years ago and approved it for an extended waranty to 15 years. Now, I'm not saying that my one example is any more proof of annual/10k changes being fine, than CCN's video saying they're not. Both are just anecdotal examples that don't prove anything beyond saying that there's no defintive evidence either way.
10k/annual changes are the norm in the UK and I don't see lots of people on the UK forum complaining of high oil consumption and premature engine failure, many of whom have older cars. In fact for the most part they praise the cars for their reliability.
I can however see how changing oil should be based on things like how and where the car is used/driven, as well the kind of oil used, which might require more frequent changes, but I can't see any demonstrable case for arbitrarily changing oil every 6 month/5k, as long as good quality synthetic oil is used, and the car is subject to normal driving conditions. I think it's great when people want to look after their cars and make them last, and feel that more regular oil changes will help them do that. I'm less convinced though by arguments that suggest others will ruin their cars if they don't follow the same path, without better evidence to back it up.
My car is 13 years old and over 110k miles, and only ever had annual oil changes. In fact its prior history suggests that it even missed an oil change during covid, which resulted in a possible gap of over 20k miles, and it doesn't lose a drop of oil between changes, and samples have tested fine. It still runs like new, and Lexus even inspected it a couple of years ago and approved it for an extended waranty to 15 years. Now, I'm not saying that my one example is any more proof of annual/10k changes being fine, than CCN's video saying they're not. Both are just anecdotal examples that don't prove anything beyond saying that there's no defintive evidence either way.
10k/annual changes are the norm in the UK and I don't see lots of people on the UK forum complaining of high oil consumption and premature engine failure, many of whom have older cars. In fact for the most part they praise the cars for their reliability.
I can however see how changing oil should be based on things like how and where the car is used/driven, as well the kind of oil used, which might require more frequent changes, but I can't see any demonstrable case for arbitrarily changing oil every 6 month/5k, as long as good quality synthetic oil is used, and the car is subject to normal driving conditions. I think it's great when people want to look after their cars and make them last, and feel that more regular oil changes will help them do that. I'm less convinced though by arguments that suggest others will ruin their cars if they don't follow the same path, without better evidence to back it up.
Oil consumption problems are real for many Toyota's and Lexus V6 engines although the latest engine it's not as prevalent as the earlier ones. This is always due to sludge in the engines impacting (Sticking) the piston rings. Frequent oil changes earlier than the recommended changes are the ONLY way of preventing this! He has said this on many of his videos!
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10-10-23, 10:53 AM
#73
Nevermind the CCN haters. CCN is solid mechanic and has good habits. He does wade into territory he doesn't belong in like design, engineering, general car reviews. But fixing stuff, he's good.
As someone who has actually worked on cars, built many cars, built engines/track cars, I can appreciate a solid work ethic and maintenance advice.
Following frequent OCIs is not about "NoT FoLLoWiNg ThE MaNuFacTureR," but about reading between the lines and realizing and balancing a company's need for marketing and the longevity of your asset. It's also about said people realizing they dun goofed by following long OCIs and they can't turn back the hands of time. A good example in the BMW community is at one time a particular set of transmissions were recommended by BMW to have oil changed every 60k miles. Then at some point, one year, the brand shifted its marketing campaign because the perceptions BMW needed maintenance was doing them in. So they switched to "lifetime" and slapped on an orange sticker. The transmission, nor the fluid changed. Suddenly a transmission BMW was saying needed fluid every 60k miles, was said to be "lifetime." All with zero hardware change. BMW owners saw through this and continued the 60k intervals anyway.
Nuanced thinking is not for everyone.
As someone who has actually worked on cars, built many cars, built engines/track cars, I can appreciate a solid work ethic and maintenance advice.
Following frequent OCIs is not about "NoT FoLLoWiNg ThE MaNuFacTureR," but about reading between the lines and realizing and balancing a company's need for marketing and the longevity of your asset. It's also about said people realizing they dun goofed by following long OCIs and they can't turn back the hands of time. A good example in the BMW community is at one time a particular set of transmissions were recommended by BMW to have oil changed every 60k miles. Then at some point, one year, the brand shifted its marketing campaign because the perceptions BMW needed maintenance was doing them in. So they switched to "lifetime" and slapped on an orange sticker. The transmission, nor the fluid changed. Suddenly a transmission BMW was saying needed fluid every 60k miles, was said to be "lifetime." All with zero hardware change. BMW owners saw through this and continued the 60k intervals anyway.
Nuanced thinking is not for everyone.
10-10-23, 11:17 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
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Marc780 (12-02-23)
10-10-23, 12:30 PM
#75
There is always somebody like you in the crowd! My guess you have never even watched any of his videos! He has repaired MANY Toyotas with oil consumption issues, and they are always related to people not changing their oil often enough! You want to continue changing your oil at the factory recommended intervals then be my guest. People LIKE YOU are why people are hesitant to post messages in public forums. We always have known it all's who think they know everything and are fast to criticize others for their ideas and other information that might be helpful to others!
The following users liked this post:
LS500Fan (10-10-23)