UltraLux22

I tried the Tidal free subscription a while back, and it sounds incredible with the Mark Lev. Audio. I would have continued the subscription if the price point was lower; however, I'm thoroughly satisfied with the Amazon Music HQ subscription. Somehow I'm getting it free when it's usually $10-12 monthly. But you are right; the quality is sensational. The Tidal mobile app is pretty comprehensive.

DavidZ

I just did a 60-day Tidal trial. I much prefer the sound quality of Amazon HD music (now called Amazon Music Unlimited). I find that Amazon Music Unlimited has significantly greater clarity and detail compared with Tidal HiFi Plus. There's a lot of debate online about which sounds better. However, the consensus seems to be that AMU has more clarity while THP sounds more "musical." To me, "more musical" is another way of saying "pleasant distortion," but that's just my opinion and I appreciate that others may differ.

UltraLux22

Well done! I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed using Tidal. Personally, I have also had a great experience with it. However, I understand that the price can be a deciding factor for many, and that's where AMU comes in as a great option. I'm also a current AMU subscriber.

DavidZ

The reason I did the Tidal trial is that the Amazon app was flaking out on me. I didn't want to reinstall the app because I had 700+ tracks downloaded and there's no way to keep them if you reinstall. You can't even get a list of them. And I wasn't sure if reinstalling would fix the problems. So I manually created a list of the tracks in order not to lose my collection. What a pain. The stupid app should have done that for me.

I wanted to give Tidal a try anyway so I used this opportunity to do that. And if reinstalling the Amazon app didn't fix the problems, I could just move to Tidal. In the end, reinstalling fixed the problems and I didn't think Tidal's sound quality was as good.

Crustyfart

Iv'e been reading some of the opinions about the ML audio and have to ask...Is it worth the ~$1200?...or is it wiser to spend that much for a new amp/head unity/speakers upgrade? ML is a Harmon Kardon product and supposedly sounds very good, though I've never heard it in a car, but can one do better starting from scratch and building their own system?

BBQapple

If you like loud, you probably won’t like the ML system. If you’ve never adjusted levels to get right under the point of clipping, the ML is probably great.

Crustyfart

I don't particularly like 'loud'...my concert days are well past. Besides the whole point of buying a Lexus is the brand's reputation for quiet vehicles, therefore reducing if not eliminating the need for 'loud'. No, I don't want to have the need for 'loud', just to hear over extraneous noise (road, wind, motor, etc). What I do want is clean, accurate music that doesn't rely on electronic wizardry to overcompensate for the extraneous noises often found in cars. I have read reviews on youtube that praise the ML system in some models of Lexus, yet trash it on other models. For example, one tester claims the ML is base deficient on the '23 ES 350 while the ML on the RX 350 is outstanding in all aspects. My next car will be a Lexus and the ML will be a 'must have', provided it's the best option for me. I am willing to choose the model based on the quality of the noise levels (ie quietness). If the ES is quieter, then that will be my choice, yet I am a little disappointed by the review of the ML on youtube. I don't like base heavy 'music' (hip-hop, etc) as it sounds artificial to me. I prefer a system's ability to reproduce studio quality music of most all genre. My tastes are very eclectic and it's easier to just say I don't like hip-hop, country or jazz and love everything else. The average option cost for the ML system is approx. $1200. I am just curious if I can do better for the same amount or slightly more for a complete system from a custom audio installer or just take a leap of faith in the ML. ML is owned by Harmon Kardon, as I'm sure you all know. Customarily, when a large company like HK buys smaller ones, the quality improves on the lower levels while it decreases on the upper levels. I saw that happen with Sea Ray boats (quality went down) while the quality of Bay Liner boats improved...when both had been purchased by Brunswick Marine. Thank you for your reply and I appreciate any advice before I drop the cost of a Lexus. By the way, do you know if Lexus used sound deadening mats in their installation of the ML systems?

UltraLux22

I find it intriguing to hear such harshly negative opinions about the Mark Lev. audio system from those who seem almost excessively to criticize it. I am uncertain what type of sound systems these individuals are familiar with that would prompt them to have such an unfavorable view of the Mark Lev. I am left wondering what audio systems they are using as a basis for their perspective. Our perception of something is typically shaped by our encounters with similar things. Therefore, if someone is accustomed to high-quality audio in vehicles with high output, their perception of any other system will be judged against that, enabling them to determine whether something is superior or inferior or whether it is worth the investment. Unfortunately, this cannot be accomplished through a message board since we all possess unique perspectives, and certain nuances will influence our perceptions and ultimately shape our opinion of that particular thing. For example, I recently test-drove a $91k INFINITI with a BOSE system that was relatively lackluster and inferior when compared to the ML. However, last week I test-drove a $115k Mercedes EQS with a Burmeister sound system that was, by far, the best audio experience I’ve encountered in a car to this point; better than the ML. If I had relied on the advice and opinions of some overly critical posters and then listened to the ML sound for the first time, I would seriously question their judgment. It’s important to remember that everyone has their unique perspective and is entitled to express it loudly and often; how we choose to convey that information reflects on the person saying it. So, it’s always best to check things out for yourself when in doubt.

seanyyz

Are the complaints about the ML audio in this thread specific generation and model or is it more across the board? My dad had a great ML system in his RX (2015?). I was really impressed with it.

UltraLux22

I've had ML audio in both my 19 Lux. and 22 Ultra Lux. models. I can confidently say that any "complaints" would be targeted at the 7ES. As a staunch supporter of ML, I believe it's safe to assume you'll find it to be better than average.

Crustyfart

Thank you for your insightful response. The only 'nice' audio system I've ever owned was back in '87 when I purchased a 1984 GTi. The cassete deck (go ahead...laugh) failed so I bought a new Concord head unit with cassette and a pair of Polk 3-way 6X9 speakers, mounted in a box that fit the back deck perfectly. I had a pair of HK tweeters installed in the front dash and a 100W amp mounted under the front seat. The bass felt like someone was kicking the back of your seat, but very clean...not the stupid, dirty thumping I so often hear. Highs were crystal clear and midrange was very accurate too. It was amazing what a pair of 6x9's can do. I don't know too much about car audio, but I've been around some pretty impressive home systems...think Carver Silver 7, Martin logan ribbon speakers ($59K/pair), etc. But that's another animal altogether and I digress. I have my heart set on the ESh or the new RXh and either will have the ML system. My only concern is whether the ML is a better bet than a new total system. Mark Levinson has nothing to do with the system Lexus is using, they have the name only. I guess the best and obvious thing to do would be to audition the ML in both new vehicles at my local dealer and bring my own USB thumb drive. But rest assured, you have put my mind somewhat more at ease with your insight...and for that you have my sincere 'thank you'. I would rather go with the factory install if at all possible anway.

UltraLux22

You're welcome! I want to clarify that my assistance is not motivated by any ulterior motive. About your approach, I must say that it is highly advisable and the most accurate way to assess sound quality. As the audio is front biased, my personal listening recommendation is to turn off the surround sound, keeping the fader and balance in the center. Bass, treble, and Mid-range are your choice. I recommend a volume range of 35-40; anything above 45 might have your ears begging for mercy, depending on your music selections!😁
Some of my more enthusiastic musical selections force me to turn lower to 30 or so after extended periods.

I'd be very interested to know what your perception is once you try both models. Please let us know your thoughts once you do.

Keep in mind the ML audio ES specs and RX specs:

ES HIGHLIGHTS

Wattage 1800 watts amplified power
Speakers 17 speakers
7.1 channel architecture
12 channel Mark Levinson amplifier

RX HIGHLIGHTS

Wattage 835 watts amplified power
Speakers 15 speakers
Bullet 7.1 channel architecture
12 channel Mark Levinson amplifier

LexFinally

Specific generation and model, most would agree. This generation of ES eliminated some rear speakers in both the base and ML systems. It led to a lot of complaints that very little was coming from the back, apparently compounded by a rear amplifier problem in (I think) 2019 and some 2020 cars. I think that problem was somewhat addressed, but it's still engineered to be a "concert hall" listerning experience that arrays itself from left to right in front of you, not surround. As mentioned briefly here, some have said the best compensation is to switch off Surround and move the fader two clicks rearward. This has proven to be the best solution for me personally.

UltraLux22

In the realm of music and media, individual tastes and preferences reign supreme. There exists no singular correct method of consumption, which underscores the importance of being able to make adjustments. In my experience with the Mark Lev. audio system, spanning two years of ownership (namely, 19 and 22), I have found the sound stage to be somewhat front-biased yet remarkably all-encompassing from any angle. Ah, the immersive concert hall sound stage. It's like being wrapped in a warm blanket of sound, but I must admit, the Burmester system in that EQS I tested recently had me feeling a bit like a musical snob; I digress. But let's not get too carried away with our audiophile pretensions, shall we? While some have recommended moving the fader back two clicks in order to address rear speaker loudness, I have discovered that doing so ultimately diminishes the sonic presence and necessitates increased volume to compensate, thereby detracting from the immersive experience. As I mentioned before, I really think it's best to avoid turning on the surround sound settings as LexFinally suggested—he tends to be accurate about most things! 😉
It is worth noting that some 2019 ES 350 and 300 models were afflicted with a low rear bias issue in the base systems that was addressed in a TSB. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...76288-9999.pdf Fortunately, this did not affect the Mark Lev. systems, and my 19 Lux with ML sounded superb.

Interestingly, the 6th generation ES saw a reduction in speaker quantity for both base and Mark Lev. audio systems. The base model featured a standard eight-speaker Lexus Premium Sound System, while the Mark Lev. boasted 15 speakers with 835 watts. In contrast, the current 7th generation ES base audio system features a 10-speaker premium sound system, while the Mark Lev. audio system boasts an even greater number of speakers than its predecessor with a 17-speaker configuration and 1800 watts.

Ultimately, my philosophy regarding sound systems is that if it sounds good to you, that is what truly matters. You are the one driving, who cares about anyone else!😜

LexFinally

Thanks for the kind words, UltraLux.

Also, in response to another poster's question, I think the "17 speakers" claim is a bit fast and loose. I believe they base it on some of the speakers being concentrically mounted, with smaller speakers being mounted in the same enclosure in front of bigger speakers. So there are allegedly 17 speakers, but there aren't 17 openings.