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I purchased the vehicle Thanksgiving 2019, so it's almost been a year. I did not drive much this past year due to COVID and work from home, but since I'm spending much more time at home, I did start to notice a few paint defects on the edge of the hood and trunk, which surprised me that it passed the QC process like that...
The defects are all on the underside of the panel, so they are all hidden unless I open the trunk/hood. I'm about due for the 12 month service, so I'm wondering if these paint issues are worth bringing up, or if bodyshop can potentially make it worse due to the Atomic silver color... My main concern is if I leave these defects be, it would raise eyebrows when it comes time to sell/trade it in down the road, as people may think the car was wrecked and repaired poorly at one point? But since I don't see the defects normally, I certainly don't want to make the problem worse/more visible.
1. Biggest issue, inner left edge of trunk lid.
2. Same issue, but much smaller and less obvious on the right upper corner of the hood.
3. Some spraying issues on the edge of the hood...?
4. Right side mirror arm trim does not sit flush, this was actually the only fit/finish issue I was going to bring up originally...
Overall I'm pretty disappointed by the poor build quality, on top of all these issues, my car already had the rear undercover replaced 5 days into ownership, and 1 month into ownership, a missing clip for the underside heatshield was installed/replaced. So whoever did the QC for my vehicle definitely didn't do their job. I absolutely love the car, but I never experienced issues like this, or this many issues, even in cheaper vehicles. It's a US built ES hybrid, so I'm definitely very disappointed in the Lexus production line in the US plant at this point...
I agree with you as far as these should have been corrected at the assembly point and never passed and released for sale. These issues are ones that cause people to switch to other manufacturers that ostensibly would have better QC on their products. I don't think that I'd pitch a bit*h about these issues because the repair might be worse than the issue itself.
Especially with Atomic Silver paint (which I also have). Additionally, after buying cars for over 50 years I know the person assessing your car rarely opens the trunk or hood to look and primarily makes a judgement based on the outward appearance of your vehicle. Shoot, they're not even interested in any maintenance history. Just the appearance. Sorry to see that the QC was apparently skipped over on this vehicle and I wonder how many others coming out of Kentucky.
My 2019 White F-Sport is made in Kentucky and I have none of those issues. The one that would bother be the most is the spraying issues on the edge of the hood. That's a bad reaction or something that happened with the paint process and may start bubbling off in time exposing the primer. It's too close to the outside hood area and I would have that addressed. The ill-fitting mirror, I would also have addressed. The other items are far enough from the outside of the car that I would leave them alone. Maybe touch up what appears to be paint chipping with the black showing on the first picture to keep it from flaking or spreading further.
I agree with you as far as these should have been corrected at the assembly point and never passed and released for sale. These issues are ones that cause people to switch to other manufacturers that ostensibly would have better QC on their products. I don't think that I'd pitch a bit*h about these issues because the repair might be worse than the issue itself.
Especially with Atomic Silver paint (which I also have). Additionally, after buying cars for over 50 years I know the person assessing your car rarely opens the trunk or hood to look and primarily makes a judgement based on the outward appearance of your vehicle. Shoot, they're not even interested in any maintenance history. Just the appearance. Sorry to see that the QC was apparently skipped over on this vehicle and I wonder how many others coming out of Kentucky.
Yea, I certainly wasn't planning on raising hell at the dealership, it was more of a if they cover it, great, if they don't, then I'll have them document it...my dilemma was if they decide to cover it, should I accept the repaint, since these definitely are not "it will buff out" type of deal...or just not even worth brining up at all.
I hand wash and wax my car and keep the the paint in great condition and scratch/swirl free, which hurts me more that I ended up with these defects vs. someone that may not even care about their car's appearance or on lease.
Originally Posted by acotugno
My 2019 White F-Sport is made in Kentucky and I have none of those issues. The one that would bother be the most is the spraying issues on the edge of the hood. That's a bad reaction or something that happened with the paint process and may start bubbling off in time exposing the primer. It's too close to the outside hood area and I would have that addressed. The ill-fitting mirror, I would also have addressed. The other items are far enough from the outside of the car that I would leave them alone. Maybe touch up what appears to be paint chipping with the black showing on the first picture to keep it from flaking or spreading further.
Good luck.
Yea it's definitely a luck thing, combination of crappy QC by someone giving zero crap, plus these issues happening in the first place. I mean shoot I don't even see these issues on the Camry or the Corolla. I also noticed a few paint pimples in various places on the car that are really hard to get on camera, so something definitely happened with the paint process of my particular car. But I guess the tiny pimples (not poped) don't bother me too much compared to the potential mismatching paint color with a repaint. I'm just disappointed that the whole "we build Lexus with master Toyota techs at the plant" narrative is pure bullcrap, they may have higher number of years of experience to be working on the Lexus line, but certainly not higher level of craftsmanship, care or work ethics...I sure wish they still built the 2020 Hybrids in Japan only...
The black spots are actually beneath the clear coat so they aren't flaking, just trash under the clear. But out of curiosity, I think all of these paint issues are essentially "bubbles", just in different clutters/patterns, why do you say the ones on the hood are more at risk of popping? I was actually more concerned about the trunk because I can't tell if there is spots where paint already came off in that blub of mess which may potential lead to rust...but I guess if it has been fine for the past 11 months...probably not...
I did own the vehicle for 11 months now, and no signs of flaking yet...how long is the Lexus paint warranty on a new car? Should I push for repaint, or just ask them to maybe extend the warranty on the paint...?
Any defects in paint would be covered under the basic warranty which is 48 months or 50,000 miles. However, the points to consider as time goes by is that there is so much fine print in that warranty that they can exclude and say it was based on contamination or chemicals. Also another important point is if you wait, it is going to be that much more difficult to match and blend the paint, especially with that color and where you live. Even if you garage it, the hot sun takes its toll on the paint. I know since I live in Miami. Not sure how long you plan on keeping that car but at 11 months, it is still relatively new. Sounds like you maintain it well as you wash and wax often. That will of course help.
Any defects in paint would be covered under the basic warranty which is 48 months or 50,000 miles. However, the points to consider as time goes by is that there is so much fine print in that warranty that they can exclude and say it was based on contamination or chemicals. Also another important point is if you wait, it is going to be that much more difficult to match and blend the paint, especially with that color and where you live. Even if you garage it, the hot sun takes its toll on the paint. I know since I live in Miami. Not sure how long you plan on keeping that car but at 11 months, it is still relatively new. Sounds like you maintain it well as you wash and wax often. That will of course help.
The car is garaged both at home and at work, and I usually leave for work quite early, and return home quite late, during the winter months I've owned and drove the car to work it's pretty much dark the entire time. So the car actually never had much sun exposure at all lol, and of course nowadays it's pretty much garaged 24/7 due to work from home. But I've seen first hand some paint/texture mismatch issues due to repaint done at the affiliated body shop owned by our dealer previously, so...still debating if I want to go that route and sacrifice the factory paint, however crappy it may be.
The other complication is of course during the whole COVID environment do I really want to be sending the car to bodyshop and have all sorts of different people drive it back and forth and working on it. But I guess my 12 month maintenance is due in Nov, so I will make a decision then...
Originally Posted by ionian2k
Sorry to hear. I didn't know they started to build hybrid in U.S for 2020. My 2019 ES300H was built in Japan and it is flawless.
Yea unfortunately they started it with the 2020 MY. It was very hard to find a Japan VIN ES300h when I was looking, plus I wanted the October built or later for Android auto capabilities, so that shortened my options even more and I settled with this one that was fresh off the truck 5 days ago at the time of purchase for a decent price. As time goes on I think Japan built ES300h will be more and more rare, since those now get allocated to elsewhere in the world, and we are stuck with Kentucky plant in North America for better or for worse...
I have heard many defects on ES's coming from this Kentucky, plant, on this current generation and the last generation, including misaligned door panels, interior pieces that do not line up, and trunk lids that don't close well. I would let all the powers that be know including the district regional offices. This is an embarrassment that the defects still continue from this plant, and it appears that the Kentucky ES has the same quality as a Toyota Avalon now which is built at the same plant. And I am not bashing the American auto assembly worker here. Honda has produced many excellent quality vehicles built from their Marysville, Ohio plant over the years.
Wow, didn't realize all these issues with Lexus and the Kentucky plant. My 2019 ES350 F-Sport which was built in Kentucky has no issues with regard to fit and finish so I guess that makes me lucky. However, I am certainly not going to pound my chest in victory or shall I say in selfishness when others who are Lexus devotees or even first time owners are victims of these quality issues. I've had nothing but Lexus vehicles since I purchased a GS300 back in 1998 when I was living in NY. I am disappointed in the brand now. Lexus has historically built a reputation based on quality and reliability. Perhaps their success has led to arrogance which sometimes leads to what might be occurring at the Kentucky plant. Don't know but it is certainly worthy of notation and perhaps all of us Lexus owners collectively giving the manufacturer a piece of our mind. If they listen or care....
I suspect that those who are pointing to quality control issues with cars built at the Kentucky plant are basing their conclusions on a very small sample size.
I'll point to a different conclusion based on my own small sample size. I've had 2 Generation 6 ES vehicles. The 2013 ES that I previously owned was built in Japan. The fits and finishes on that car were okay, but they were far from perfect. In various locations, both interior panels and exterior panels suffered from less than good alignment. The 2017 ES that I still own, on the other hand, has fits and finishes that are about as close to perfect as can be. With both the 2013 and the 2017 ES, there were absolutely no mechanical or other issues.
There was a time when I believed that the cars built in Japan were just a bit better than those built in the US. The experience that I've had with the 2 Generation 6 ES vehicles changed my thinking, and I would not hesitate to buy a car built in the Kentucky plant. In fact, about a month ago, I bought a Toyota vehicle built in the Kentucky plant, and its build quality, including fits and finishes is just about perfect.
I believe that there is no overall QC issue with the cars being built in Kentucky. I also have a 2019 ES 350 that is, IMO, close to perfect as far as build. However, if I plunked down $50k or more for a new Lexus I would want the car to be as close to perfect as possible. This car does not meet that level and should have been flagged for the paint issues. At the same time, I don't believe that ANY car coming off the assembly line is 100% without imperfections or flaws. Probably most of us members on this forum can remember the cars that GM built in the 70's and 80's. Talk about flaws and misaligned panels? How about engines and trannies? They were pure junk IMO and this is why people changed to buying Japanese and European cars...
From reading the postings on this forum, I'm coming to the conclusion that the 2020 model year has a lot more problems than the 2019 model year. I don't recall nearly as many complaints about QC problems with the 2019 model year.
About a year or 2 ago, I recall seeing a TV segment about the new Lexus line being setup in Kentucky and the extraordinary training and other measures taken to achieve the highest level of QC. I suspect that since then the QC has declined somewhat. Maybe it's time for a refresher course and/or a QC audit.
Probably most of us members on this forum can remember the cars that GM built in the 70's and 80's. Talk about flaws and misaligned panels? How about engines and trannies? They were pure junk IMO and this is why people changed to buying Japanese and European cars...
When I had a couple true lemons from GM in the 1970's and 1980's, I escalated my complaints about one of them as far as I could go. I eventually got a letter from Roger Smith (or someone in his office), who was the GM chairman of the board. He admitted that GM's production philosophy had been to have car buyers be the major quality control agents for their cars. It used to be standard practice to buy a car, make a list of the 20 or more items that needed attention, and, then, to take it back to the dealership after 30 days of ownership to have those items fixed. In his letter to me Roger Smith admitted that it was the competition from Japan and Japan's high quality control standards that were forcing GM to start changing their quality control practices.
10-21-20, 02:23 PM
Paint defects, should I bother bring it up?
