grp52

??No grears?? Umm... You might want to read up on the implementation of what Toyota/Lexus calls an Electronic Continuously Variable Transmission (e-CVT) used in the ES 300h. In a nutshell, the implementation uses a planetary gear-set/epicyclic gear train to couple and continually adjust and blend the amount of power/torque between the ICE and two motor generator sets. For the lack of finding a better write-up than Wikipedia in a quick search, the Hybrid Synergy Drive article will give you a more detailed discussion of how the system is put together and its operation.

As to other CVT design implementations, do you have a reference to real world engineering level data and analysis to back up the "no gears so the transmission fluid doesn't get as hot" claim? There sure seems like there's a lot of wildly varying claims about CVT operating temperatures and transmission fluid changing requirements. Some fluid changes are recommend at a little as 15K miles which really calls into question the "extends the fluid life" claim as a general claim about CVTs. Agreed in those other CVT design implementations, the lack of shift gears eliminates that source of lubricated metal-on-metal friction heat generation but the claim ignores the some/all/more lubricated metal-on-metal friction heat generation added in with the CVT implementing parts such as metal drive belts, friction disks, etc..

Napcuramen

..an in depth explanation of how a eCVT transmission works.

kingofire

I understand that it has planetary gears but I guess I didnt word it properly. All I was trying to say is the fluid retains its useful life much longer than a conventional transmission. I have many many used transmission oil analysis done and every time a eCVT or CVT transmission shows more useful life remaining than an analysis on a conventional transmission at the same change interval. There is also a oxidation and nitration levels that clearly indicate that a conventional transmission runs hotter than a CVT transmission. I'll leave it at that.

rebel7254

Alright, after giving it some more thought and research, thanks in part to some of the posts in this thread, I have decided to cancel my order for the G90 and trade for a new 300h. It’s a $4k difference, but there are no Genesis dealers in my area and I’ll be getting 5 years of warranty with the Lexus instead of 19 months with the G90. Plus, the dramatically better fuel mileage means I’ll be going twice as long between trips to the gas station with the 300h vs the G90. I think since the ES 300h is almost 1,000 lbs lighter than our AWD Platinum Sienna, the 4 cylinder won’t sound quite as angry as often in the ES 300h as it does in the Sienna. Even though the powertrain of the ES 300h has 30 hp less than the Sienna’s, the horsepower per pound is still around 11% higher in the ES 300h.

So looks like I’m staying in the Lexus family after all.

ESh

That’s the best decision.

TechNut

Congrats on your new car, but I'm sorry it came this way and at such a cost - but I think you are smart to call it quickly before you lose any more to depreciation. I think you will enjoy the hybrid version of the ES. There are a lot of hybrid naysayers, but this is our second hybrid ES and we have really enjoyed them. There is no question the V6 is smoother, quieter and obviously more powerful under heavy load - but the hybrid is smoother and quieter in city driving with no real difference cruising at highway speed (my opinion of course).

With regard to the engine noise comment, is it possible the different orientation of the engine to the passenger compartment may account for the different engine volume? I just took a Platinum Highlander hybrid for a test drive yesterday and I believe it has the same powertrain as your Sienna. From a purely subjective point of view, I think the Highlander might be just slightly louder - but they are so close it is hard to say. For the record, we were VERY impressed with the Highlander but I digress...

AllinCLE

Did you get a chance to drive one, hopefully for a significant amount of time? It'd be great if the dealer would work with you and let you take an example home to make sure it's something you're going to be happy with this time around.

rebel7254

Drove it home 120 miles, mix of highway and town. She’s a keeper.

I do have one concern with the radiator fan, which I’ll post in a separate thread.

rebel7254

Maybe the V6 is smoother, but the jerky transmission completely negates that.

I pretty much have to push the throttle to the floor to get the same level of roaring noise in the ES 300h as I can hear in the Sienna about halfway through the PWR segment on the tachometer. Kind of what I expected. As for actual power, it has plenty enough for me.

I doubt orientation matters much. I suspect it’s just a combination of perhaps better sound dampening materials in the Lexus and the fact that it’s a much lighter vehicle, so the engine doesn’t have to work as hard overall.

I clocked 48 mpg on the 120 mile trip home, all US highway (no interstate) and a few towns with stop lights.

The whole fiasco cost me an extra $7k overall, but as of right now I’m happy with my decision.

ionian

Happiness is priceless. Good to hear you made sound decision after your research. I have a poll going about the transmission issues on the non-hybrid but it seems about half of ES350 owners don't experience it. It is too small of a pool right now.

rebel7254

Looks more like one third to me right now according to the current poll results. Still a small sampling though right now, you’re right about that.

mikemu30

The truth is anyone that says theirs doesn't buck at times just doesn't understand how a transmission IS SUPPOSED to operate. It's the same trans in every non hybrid V6 ES. They all behave the same way under the same conditions. Ive had many loaners and every single one is identical.

ESh

I would try to reset the TCM and then recalibrate it.

DavidZ

Ignorance is bliss.

Perhaps, but everyone drives differently.