Hello,

I posted this question over in the RX forum, but I didn't want to miss input from ES drivers who maybe don't spend much time there. I would appreciate your input.

 

My wife drives a 17 RX and me a 19 ES FSport. Apples and oranges. The RX drives great and handles rough roads just fine but its a much looser feeling vehicle. The ES feels tight but you feel lots of the road on the low profile tires. And yes the ES trans sucks. None of that jerky shifting in the RX.

 

save your time and money and get the RX, even 2010 RX will be more comfortable than the ES, as far as ride quality in general. Talking about pot holes and rough roads? of course RX 2018 will blow ES away.

i own a 19 ES Sport for 2 years now, I drove ES ultra Luxury version as well they are the pretty much the same with exception of road noise.

 

I had a RX 350 loaner and it did the jerk shift just like my ES 350 does

 

I think many members would disagree the non-sport ES rides rough on bumpy roads. With 17" and 18" wheels, there is no harshness to the suspension of the ES. I have owned 2 RXs and both rattled and bobbed up and down over rough roads enough I had to trade them early. You would be best to make your own decision by test driving each back to back over the same roads. Each individual has an opinion that might or might not be consistent with your ideal ride.

 

My 2021 ES300h with 17" wheels and 36 PSI of tire pressure rides great. The unibody of the ES is galaxies stronger than the old fashioned RX, this leads as a vastly superior foundation for comfortable ride. I recently had my new ES at the dealer for something and got a 2020 RX loaner. That car was rough and loud, the body jiggled a LOT, and the engine was always roary. It just felt... old. Night and day when I got back into my ES in terms of solidity, refinement, and smoothness.

Note those chiming in "my car's uncomftables" are riding on 19" F Sport wheels w/ rubber band tires and jerky transmissions.

The ES300h w/ 17" rides very plush and since the hybrid system is at play, the engine is off a large percentage of the time which leads to further quietness. Just test drive one =)

 

The lease on my 2018 Lexus RX 350 Luxury is ending and we're considering another RX or an ES 300h. I've never owned an ES and, due to COVID, I'm not too keen on taking a test drive. Our RX has been great, but I find that on poor pavement with plenty of potholes in the Toronto area, the ride could be a bit improved. Our RX rides on 20" wheels.

Others have posted concerns around rough shifts from the ES 350, so I think it's safer to rule it out in favour of an ES 300h. Considering 2021 models, I suspect a base RX with 18" wheels, an ES 300h base with 17" or ES 300h Ultra Luxury with 18" wheels will have the smoothest ride.

I wanted to get as many opinions as possible with respect to which RX or ES trim would be most isolating and best over poor pavement. Perhaps I should be considering an F Sport, which I thought has a sportier and firmer ride, but maybe the adaptive dampers actually help over rough roads?

Our RX also has a few rattles and squeaks here and there, namely from the driver's door, front passenger's door speaker area, somewhere in the rear (maybe around the power liftgate) and around the HVAC controls. Is the ES, riding on the new architecture, a tighter car with fewer of these annoyances?"
There isn't a good way to reply to this without being very subjective and stating what amounts to opinion. I own a 2019 ES 300h and I owned one of the 6th generation 300h cars as well. I agree this generation feels more solid than previous gen vehicles and I also agree the Hybrid with 17" rims will result in the quietest and smoothest drive. I don't sense that it feels any better on rough roads than the RX (Of which I owned one from the last gen and just purchased a new one from the current gen). The RX has greater suspension travel so in theory it should handle rougher roads better, and the greater ground clearance with all wheel drive is bound to do better in snowy conditions. I don't think an F Sport is advisable as the sportier ride is unlikely to be as compliant as the base or Ultra Luxury, and some F Sport owners have reported issues with a jerky transmission.

The thing is, these are very different vehicles with different missions. I like them both but for different reasons. If I could only have one vehicle, it would be the RX - even though my wife and I really enjoy the ES hybrid. I am planning road trips with the ES, but for mountain driving I definitely want to use the RX. For winter driving, I definitely favor a vehicle with enough ground clearance to clear semi-plowed or unplowed roads, which are pretty normal around here. A couple of years ago I had to park our former ES because the front was so low it would have just plowed snow, which was frozen hard as a rock after a brief melting period. I am not convinced all wheel drive is necessary but tires appropriate to the weather conditions definitely are. Oh, and as for ride quality, I would argue that smaller rims will always result in a better ride, all other things being due to the greater cushioning of the sidewalls in the taller-profiled tires.

As others have stated, you need to just drive both. Keep in mind the kind of weather conditions you experience and the winter road maintenance in your region. We just purchased this latest RX, so I don't have a lot of experience with it yet and age hasn't brought any rattles out yet...

 

We actually own both a 2021 RX 350 with luxury package and a 2019 ES 350 UL. I haven't been to Toronto for a few years, so I'm going by memory that the roads are similar to what I deal with in, say Cleveland and Detroit. We've got potholes and frost heaves so big it doesn't matter what you're in; nothing is smoothing those out to the point they aren't felt or heard. Forget spilling a coffee, some can legitimately damage a car. I didn't see one a few years ago and lost two wheels, and the impact was so harsh that my dash cam thought I was in an accident. A friend who's kind of careless managed to bend the entire front subframe on his car! Assuming you're avoiding those landmines, and just talking run of the mill terrible urban roads in freeze/thaw climates....

Our RX is more isolating in nearly every way (except engine noise) than the ES, if that's what you're after. The suspension travel of the RX makes it less likely to bottom out or bounce over things like the dips after railroad crossings and sloped bridge joints. That does come with more vertical motion though, which can contribute to a touch of floaty sensation sometimes. The ES has a distinct advantage in controlling those motions/feeling if that bothers you. So maybe define what a "better" ride is in terms of your taste: is it feel as little as possible? Or do you prioritize more controlled motions? For what it's worth, neither of our vehicles suffers from the jerky transmission some folks on here have to deal with. Your mileage may vary

Mother in law has an 18 RX, I've spent some time in too and comparing this gen RX pre and post 2020 refresh, the ride is slightly different. I notice a little bit of a jiggling or unsettled motions in the 18 on undulating roads, even if the pavement was in good shape. It's not worlds different, just smoother in more situations.

Here's a pic for good measure: From different days obviously, but both were from when we took delivery when they were new.

 

I want to add too that neither is harsh. Both heavily prioritize quiet comfort over engaging driving dynamics. They're the creampuffs of their respective classes, it's really the difference of SUV vs sedan in what it's going to ride like. I would describe neither as sporty in any way except for looks, however the ES is a willing, if unenthusiastic, dance partner.

 

Thank you all for your responses. I just finishing reading feedback to the same question over in the RX forums, where the majority felt the ES felt superior, if not decisively so then at least slightly, over poor pavement. It's funny how those in this ES forum aren't as convinced.

AllinCLE, your opinion is very interesting. Your cars are beautiful, by the way! I wish I could have one of each. Exactly the colour I'm looking for, albeit with black interior.

Toronto has roads that are similar to the notoriously poor pavement found in Michigan, due to the many freeze / thaw cycles that come part and parcel with the northern climate. We get the occasional impact crater and aside from those, after any given winter and before the maintenance crews can catch up with their pothole repair blitzes, it can seem like there are roads in our potholes rather than the opposite.

I'm guessing that your RX Luxury has the 20" wheels with 55 series tires and the ES has 18" wheels with 45 series tires? I don't mind a floaty ride but I absolutely hate the sharp cabin intruding impacts like those you describe when going over railroad tracks, potholes, manhole covers, bridge expansion joints etc. Fewer controlled motions are fine so long as I feel as little of the actual road surface as possible and I don't care if that means the car doesn't corner as well or dips when braking and taking off. I guess you would feel that an RX on 65R18 tires would be even more cushy.

We have a 2018 Camry Hybrid XLE which I believe rides on the same 18" tires as the ES and is built around the same TNGA platform. I can't quite decide which ride is preferable. I feel the road imperfections in the Camry, probably due to the lower profile tires, but they seem less abrupt, maybe because the car is tighter and not as heavy. It seems to take the edge off the harshness better than the RX. I guess if the Camry ride is acceptable, the ES can only be better due to its suspension magic.

After reading the opinions in the RX forum, I was almost decided on the ES. Now that I've come here, I'm wondering if the RX on 18" wheels is the best option for the state of our roads. On the other other other hand, I think that the majority opinion, even combined between both forums, is still that the ES has the smoothest ride over choppy pavement. I know I'm asking for subjective opinions, but they're very insightful, especially from those fortunate enough to own both cars. So, which car, trim and tire combination allows you to feel the fewest sharp / harsh impacts transmitted from the pavement?

 

If you are looking for the smoothest riding combination of this current ES, in my opinion I would suggest a hybrid (for its smoother drivetrain) and I would go with either a base or Premium Package model so you don't get into the 18" rims. When my wife and I test drove the premium package 2019 with 17" wheels, we noticed it felt smoother than our 2015 ES (also 17" rims) and seemed to absorb larger road imperfections better. We ended up with a Luxury Package car and the ride doesn't seem appreciably better than our 2015 Premium model but we felt the trade-off was worth it as we liked the appearance (and features) better. Plus, the difference in ride quality is pretty subtle as nearly as we could tell by "seat of the pants" evaluation. Remember, the hybrid isn't for everyone as some people find that smoother transmission to be too smooth and want to see/feel positive shift points and stronger acceleration. Just make sure you test drive both carefully.

Obviously, I am a fan of the hybrid models, but the key point/opinion I would offer is that you will get a slightly better ride with the 17" rims than the 18" or even the 19" rims on the F Sport models.

 

Thanks TechNut. I just wanted to make sure I'm clear. Your RX 450h has the 18" tires, right? So over in the other forum you felt that your ES 300h Luxury on 18" wheels is ever so slightly smoother and better over rough pavement than your RX on 18", and obviously the ES 300h on 17" would be even better than that.

So it seems like ride comfort may be generalized to something like this in the variants I'm considering, from best to worse: ESh on 17's > ESh on 18's > RXh on 18's > RXh on 20's.

 

But the larger wheels look oh so much better I'll absorb a few bumps as a result. We have the 20" wheels on the RX and 19s on the ES.

 

No argument there. Love the way the RX looks on 20s. I just think I'm at the stage in life where the most tranquil ride in endless hours of traffic is just more important than the car's appearance, even at the added expense of losing some other options. The translation would be that I'm getting old... at 40.

 

I think the 18s provide the best body to wheel ratio out there in terms of aesthetics. The ES is supposed to be a cushy luxury oriented car so it's nice if the body maintains a visual emphasis rather than larger wheels. 19s don't look half bad either, but i think the sweet spot is 18s.

And i say this coming from 17s.