ES 350 0-60 vs german competitors
06-25-21 | 09:01 PM
#16
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10th Gear
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: DC
That's the same for BMW and audi. Usually, bmw are way much more conservative on paper.
06-25-21 | 09:07 PM
#17
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From: IL
Acceleration pretty much depends on average power delivered. Many ways to influence this - gearing, powerband (modern turbos are set up for huge bottom end and tend to taper off at the top - the exact opposite of what I used to associate a turbo with 
), gear shift speeds (locked-up converters, dual clutch, more aggressive controls... dogboxes (sequential manual)... CVT), so on.
What are the german competitors to this car? I certainly wouldn't compare it to a 5-series or an E-class. A6 - maybe, they still offer FWD for some reason.
), gear shift speeds (locked-up converters, dual clutch, more aggressive controls... dogboxes (sequential manual)... CVT), so on.What are the german competitors to this car? I certainly wouldn't compare it to a 5-series or an E-class. A6 - maybe, they still offer FWD for some reason.
The ES 350 has no German counterpart here. Neither does the ES 300h. The ES 250 AWD isn't a true competitor to the Germans because it has a much lower price for much less power and performance.
Lexus makes a competitor to the BMW 3, Mercedes C and Audi A4 in the IS. The ES 350 sells for about the same price, but it's nothing like those German small cars—it delivers more room with less agility. Its real competitors were big non-German FWD sedans that, like the ES, were spiffed-up versions of cheaper cars (Lincoln MKZ from Fusion, Cadillac XTS from Impala, Kia Cadenza from Optima, FWD RLX from Accord). All of them are gone now—the ES is the last car standing. It's in a class of one.
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L's TLS (06-26-21),
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06-26-21 | 03:07 AM
#18
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From: NC
Really, it's even better than that.
JD Power mostly rates cars only in the opening 3 months of ownership or somesuch. Check out Consumer Reports' survey numbers, which extend unti the car is at least 6 years old, and the gap widens dramatically. German cars are notorious for being engineered to last just beyond the lease period before they start to fall apart. (That's why BMW offered free maintenance, claiming "maintenance" only required an oil change every 20,000 miles, and the cars weren't even built with a dipstick.) You see black dots all over the graph like a skin disease when German models reach age 5-6.
JD Power mostly rates cars only in the opening 3 months of ownership or somesuch. Check out Consumer Reports' survey numbers, which extend unti the car is at least 6 years old, and the gap widens dramatically. German cars are notorious for being engineered to last just beyond the lease period before they start to fall apart. (That's why BMW offered free maintenance, claiming "maintenance" only required an oil change every 20,000 miles, and the cars weren't even built with a dipstick.) You see black dots all over the graph like a skin disease when German models reach age 5-6.
06-26-21 | 03:34 AM
#19
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Like to add another kudo for Lexus. The 47 companies were just listed with the best customer service. Lexus was #7 but by far the best auto manufacturer. Ram was second at #26.
https://247wallst.com/special-report...e-companies/2/
https://247wallst.com/special-report...e-companies/2/
06-26-21 | 08:42 AM
#20
Racer
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 888
From: Midwest
Fair question. At least in America where Audi sells only AWD models, there really aren't any German competitors to this car.
The ES 350 has no German counterpart here. Neither does the ES 300h. The ES 250 AWD isn't a true competitor to the Germans because it has a much lower price for much less power and performance.
Lexus makes a competitor to the BMW 3, Mercedes C and Audi A4 in the IS. The ES 350 sells for about the same price, but it's nothing like those German small cars—it delivers more room with less agility. Its real competitors were big non-German FWD sedans that, like the ES, were spiffed-up versions of cheaper cars (Lincoln MKZ from Fusion, Cadillac XTS from Impala, Kia Cadenza from Optima, FWD RLX from Accord). All of them are gone now—the ES is the last car standing. It's in a class of one.
The ES 350 has no German counterpart here. Neither does the ES 300h. The ES 250 AWD isn't a true competitor to the Germans because it has a much lower price for much less power and performance.
Lexus makes a competitor to the BMW 3, Mercedes C and Audi A4 in the IS. The ES 350 sells for about the same price, but it's nothing like those German small cars—it delivers more room with less agility. Its real competitors were big non-German FWD sedans that, like the ES, were spiffed-up versions of cheaper cars (Lincoln MKZ from Fusion, Cadillac XTS from Impala, Kia Cadenza from Optima, FWD RLX from Accord). All of them are gone now—the ES is the last car standing. It's in a class of one.
06-28-21 | 09:50 AM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,843
Likes: 2,227
Lexus has a brand new hybrid 4 popper turbo coming soon in the new NX, so i imagine it will trickle down to the ES at some point in hybrid form. As I always explain Lexus is conservative, particularly with models that have a strong reputation and/or sell well (which is the case of the ES and RX) so they're reluctant to change it up so fast powertrain wise. But they will. They have to. I feel like the old 8AR-FTS Turbo 4 from lexus was an experiment. fairly good engine but just kind of lacklustre from day 1. I think with this new 4 Turbo lexus went to the drawing board and they're ready to go mainstream with the new Turbo 4.
So don't assume Lexus's use of the V6 for any other reason than they are conservative and want to make sure they have the right time to replace the powertrain on one of their strongest selling models.
I could see the next ES offering their standard hybrid then offering a plug in hybrid turbo as their top powertrain choice. That's what's happening in the new NX.
So I can imagine an ES300h and ES450h and no more V6 in the future.
Personally I hope all hybrids in the future go plug in.
So don't assume Lexus's use of the V6 for any other reason than they are conservative and want to make sure they have the right time to replace the powertrain on one of their strongest selling models.
I could see the next ES offering their standard hybrid then offering a plug in hybrid turbo as their top powertrain choice. That's what's happening in the new NX.
So I can imagine an ES300h and ES450h and no more V6 in the future.
Personally I hope all hybrids in the future go plug in.
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L's TLS (06-30-21)
06-30-21 | 02:07 PM
#22
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,637
Likes: 501
From: CA
Dependability
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-vds
Depreciation
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/jdpo...ciation/65480/
Customer satisfaction
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ndex-csi-study
Customer loyalty
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...-loyalty-study
Cost to maintain
This is the latest available from 2016. They looked at cars over a ten year period.
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...y-maddy-martin
Like to add another kudo for Lexus. The 47 companies were just listed with the best customer service. Lexus was #7 but by far the best auto manufacturer. Ram was second at #26.
https://247wallst.com/special-report...e-companies/2/
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-vds
Depreciation
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/jdpo...ciation/65480/
Customer satisfaction
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ndex-csi-study
Customer loyalty
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...-loyalty-study
Cost to maintain
This is the latest available from 2016. They looked at cars over a ten year period.
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...y-maddy-martin
Like to add another kudo for Lexus. The 47 companies were just listed with the best customer service. Lexus was #7 but by far the best auto manufacturer. Ram was second at #26.
https://247wallst.com/special-report...e-companies/2/
07-01-21 | 06:10 PM
#23
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: IL
I swear I get better than 6-60 w/ ES-F in Sport mode. Yes, there's a slight sluggishness off the blocks, but at about 3-4x it jams to 60 QUICK.
FWD is not ideal for jump. A lot of weight at the front of the car, traction and takeoff is muted unlike RWD.
Still, the ES is just butter on the highway/interstate. On rural interstate hit 110 without even feeling it, car just floats. That was not even intentional, the pull and acceleration is really special at high speed, so I'm a lot more careful now to check my lead foot.
FWD is not ideal for jump. A lot of weight at the front of the car, traction and takeoff is muted unlike RWD.
Still, the ES is just butter on the highway/interstate. On rural interstate hit 110 without even feeling it, car just floats. That was not even intentional, the pull and acceleration is really special at high speed, so I'm a lot more careful now to check my lead foot.
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