hendricks

Here is a question I don't understand.
2019 and after ES 350 has more than 300 HP and it is front-wheel drive, which means it is more efficient than all-wheel drive and rear-wheel drive.
The German competitors usually have a 2.0t engine with 250 ish HP. No matter a4/a6 or BMW 3/4/5 series, they are all faster than es in terms of 0-60.
I am pretty happy with my new ES, but I just don't find it makes any sense.
Any thoughts?

Freds430

Interesting question. Every car owner has different wants and needs. For me going 0-60 is probably at the bottom of my list. For me highest reliability, lowest depreciation, highest customer satisfaction, lowest maintenance cost over ten years of all the luxury brands and highest customer loyalty are right there at the top. Lexus is currently #1 in all these categories. The two brands you mentioned are not in the top 5 in any except BMW was third in one category.

hendricks

No argument there.
Frankly speaking, I don't care that much about 0-60. It is good enough for me.
I just simply don't understand why a car with much more horsepower and more efficient drive mode (front wheel) is slower.

CJS57

My 2010 with 271 HP felt quicker by .5 second or so. I was expecting more acceleration but got less with my 2019. Maybe the newer car is heavier and gearing is different? I too would like to hear an informed reason why.

LexFinally

Couple reasons. First, most of the competitors are AWD. The Lexus, being FWD, loses some time off the line because it takes some time to hook up to the pavement because of wheelspin. It's why the Lexus probably has a more competitive time 5-60 (in some ways, a more accurate measurement of power) than 0-60.

Also, the Lexus's naturally aspirated engine delivers its best power output at higher RPMs. You have to be underway before you get into the sweet spot of its powerband. Most of the Germans use turbos. Worse for reliability and smoothness, but better for a quick accelerative punch (after, in some cases, momentary turbo lag).

Finally, some German cars use dual-clutch automatic transmissions compared to Lexus's traditional torque-converter automatic. Again, worse for reliability and low-speed smoothness, but better for decisive quick shifts when you're hammering it.

If you detect a pattern here, you're right. The Lexus is built to be smooth, reliable and durable. The Germans are usually built to compromise that in order to be more immediate, responsive driver's cars. All engineering is a compromise.

mikemu30

Great explanation and the power at higher RPMs is pretty evident if you pay attention. The only time I would care about 0 - 60 times is if you have to accelerate onto a busy highway. Otherwise, I'll gladly save the fuel

sqlboy2000

iTrader: (1)

I got an ES350 as a service loaner a few years back and was pretty shocked how fast it was off the line.
And my understanding is those German cars typically make their torque really low in the RPM range which is why they are so peppy 0-60.

ionian

If you want a vehicle to go fast and handles well it is hard to beat the German's. I got it out my system after owning a few of them but now I am happy with my ES300h. I am tired of being on first names basis with the people in service bay.

bc6152

Fred can you post a link where the rating info is available please? Thanks...

Freds430

Dependability
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-vds
Depreciation
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/jdpo...ciation/65480/
Customer satisfaction
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ndex-csi-study
Customer loyalty
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...-loyalty-study
Cost to maintain
This is the latest available from 2016. They looked at cars over a ten year period.
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...y-maddy-martin

Like to add another kudo for Lexus. The 47 companies were just listed with the best customer service. Lexus was #7 but by far the best auto manufacturer. Ram was second at #26.
https://247wallst.com/special-report...e-companies/2/

bc6152

Quite impressive I think... Thanks Fred

lesz

Another factor is that Lexus seems to be quite conservative with their published 0-60 speeds. In recent years, independent testers have gotten significantly faster 0-60 times than what Lexus claims them to be.

Lwerewolf

Acceleration pretty much depends on average power delivered. Many ways to influence this - gearing, powerband (modern turbos are set up for huge bottom end and tend to taper off at the top - the exact opposite of what I used to associate a turbo with ), gear shift speeds (locked-up converters, dual clutch, more aggressive controls... dogboxes (sequential manual)... CVT), so on.

What are the german competitors to this car? I certainly wouldn't compare it to a 5-series or an E-class. A6 - maybe, they still offer FWD for some reason.

LexFinally

Really, it's even better than that.

JD Power mostly rates cars only in the opening 3 months of ownership or somesuch. Check out Consumer Reports' survey numbers, which extend unti the car is at least 6 years old, and the gap widens dramatically. German cars are notorious for being engineered to last just beyond the lease period before they start to fall apart. (That's why BMW offered free maintenance, claiming "maintenance" only required an oil change every 20,000 miles, and the cars weren't even built with a dipstick.) You see black dots all over the graph like a skin disease when German models reach age 5-6.

LexFinally

Good call. In the case of the ES 350, Lexus claimed 6.6 seconds to 60, but C/D flogged it to 60 in just 6.1.