Hello All,

I have two big problems with my 2020 ES F Sport that I would like to share and hopefully get some advice on. I am posting my issues in two different threads to allow for a more concise explanation of each issue. Please see post 2 of 2 for the other.

I bought my 2020 ES new in June 2020 and it now has ~31500 miles on the clock. I drive for a living. I apologize for the long post(s), but there are a lot of details to cover and I want everyone to have a clear picture of what is going on.

Problem number 1 of 2...

My first problem has to do with the ride quality. At my 25000 mile service the tires were replaced as that is about the life span of the Michelin low profile tires. The also recommended a 4 wheel alignment which I agreed to. I don’t know if it was out, but took their advise and got it done anyway. They were replaced with the same tires and I immediately had noise and vibration issues. I brought the car back to the dealer (dealer 1) and they rebalanced the tires. I still had problems. At this point I suspected a specific tire because I could hear a subtle thumping noise at certain speeds. I brought the car back to the dealer again and they again rebalanced the tires and called it good. I still had problems. At this point, I decided to give up on that dealer’s service department as I had had other issues with them in the past. I brought my car in to another local dealer (dealer 2) and explained the situation. They looked at it and after test driving it with me, they replaced the tire I suspected. That took care of the thumping noise, but I still had vibration issues in the seat and floor which usually points to a problem with the rear tires. I returned a couple of weeks later to dealer 2 and upon talking with my service advisor, the rear wheels were out of alignment which was weird because their machine indicated it was OK the first time I had brought it in. The performed another 4 wheel alignment and again rebalanced and rotated the tires. I still had the vibration issues and now it was also pulling to the right. Brought it back again and they cross rotated them. That took care of the pulling, but not the vibration. At this point my service advisor told me to call Michelin about having the tires replaced under warranty. Michelin said that I need to go to a Michelin dealer and have them checked. I took it to a local Discount Tire which I have been doing business with for years. In fact the tires I got replaced at dealer 1 were the first tires I haven’t bought from this DT in years. By this time the tires had about 6000 miles on them. DT did a road-force balance and told me that they were way out. They also showed me where one of my wheels were bent slightly, but said that it wasn’t enough to cause a problem. They remounted all the wheels and told me to return if that didn’t solve it. Still vibrating. At this point the theory among all the parties involved (dealer 2, DT and myself) is that either the tires are defective or that dealer 1 screwed something up when they originally mounted them. I returned the following day and DT replaced all 4 tires. The tech that did it apologized to me for it taking so long, but he wanted to make sure everything was perfect for me. With high hopes, I drove away. The new tires handled better, but still vibrated on and off at any speed over about 55. At this point, I started to suspect something other than wheels or tires, perhaps a suspension problem or wheel bearing. I again brought the car back to dealer 2 where it still is right now. I got a call from them yesterday saying that DT did not balance the tires correctly. Apparently they removed the old weights, but not the adhesive and just put the new weights next to them on the rim closer to the hub; obviously not ideal, but here is the real kicker. The dealer confirmed that one wheel is slightly out of round, but agreed with DT that it wasn’t enough to cause a problem. On top of that they told me that all 4 wheels are now balanced, but three of them have excessive road force and will need to be replaced… again. Their threshold for excessive road force is about 12 or 13 and all three of my wheels were in excess of 20; one was at almost 30.

I am going to pick up my car this morning and I am at a loss for what to do next. Someone is wrong, but I’m not sure who. The way I see it there are three possibilities… One, DT screwed up when they mounted the new tires. Two, dealer 2 is wrong about the road force and balance problems and something else is causing the vibrations. Three, no one screwed up and there is an issue with the car that keeps killing tires.

I’m thinking my best move from here is to take the car to another tire shop and get their opinion and possibly another set of new tires hopefully again with Michelin’s warranty.

Any comments or advise would be much appreciated and thanks for sticking with this until the end.

 

I am no mechanic but I will tell you the similar experience I had and I have the same FSport with 19" wheels as you do. I had to replace a tire roughly a year ago and had an independent shop do it. Driving home, awful vibration at 55mph or higher. I bring it back to them, they rebalance all four tires and I still have awful vibration. So next step, I bring it to the dealer - they do a road force balancing on all four wheels and problem solved. These low profile tires are very temperamental they tell me and traditional spin balance typically is insufficient. I can even upload a copy of the service notes for you if you'd like. Good luck getting yours resolved. I'll be replacing all four tires in a few months (36K miles on the clock now) and I will have the dealer do the service after that last experience because in this case, they clearly knew what they were doing.

 

There is zero tolerance for an out of round wheel in terms of vibration, particularly at high speeds. So one you need to get any wheel that's out of round replaced or repaired. Period.

Yes road force balance by a competent shop that has their machines regularly and properly calibrated is required.

Install quality is a thing. All surfaces should be medical grade cleaned before mounting, particularly wheel to rotor, rotor to hub.

Alignment has absolutely ZERO to do with vibration. Zero. Zero zero zero.

I would stop going to any of those shops you've been going to and switch it up.

19" Wheels particularly ones supplied by Toyota/Lexus are notorious for being easily bent, which is the trade off for 19" wheels. Add firmer dampers of the F Sport and you have a recipe for very sensitive wheels. Less tire to absorb the impact too. So just food for thought.

I spent over a decade diagnosing and writing about vibrations and how to fix them on the BMW boards. Usually people overthink it and it's the big obvious things first like bent wheels. So get that fixed first. you likely have a combination of bent wheels going on.

 

I just picked up my car from the deal and sure enough, after the rebalance, the vibrations are still there. I expected this because of the excessive road force, but now I'm not sure what to do. the dealer said that all tires were .5oz out of balance. I'm worried Michelin wont replace the tires again under warrantee and I'm also not sure where to take it now. Like you said, I don't want to take it back to discount, but that may be the only way for me to get the warrantee. What should I look for in a tire shop to get this fixed once and for all?

Also, is the excessive road force a tire / wheel problem requiring replacement? The dealer says that those 3 tires will need to be replaced.

The numbers that dealer 2 gave me for road force are 13,28,21 and 33LB.

 

It's hard to give advice when you're dealing with a situation where you have damaged wheels. That's one large factor that needs to be resolved before you can start blaming balancing equipment, job, or operator.

Get the wheels properly addressed first then go from there.

 

I defiantly agree with that. So should I just try another shop or look for someone that specializes in custom wheels maybe?

 

+1. Also look for a tire shop that uses hunter road force balancer. Its the best when it comes to balancing wheels.

 

I can confirm that both Discount Tire and the Lexus Dealer use hunter road force balancers.

 

Then you need to change the wheel. You could probably find one cheap on Ebay. Go from there.

 

Im taking it to a local independent shop tomorrow to see what they say. Hopefully they can get to the bottom of this.

 

These issues are extremely difficult to pin down. Sometimes you'll find it's something totally unrelated to what you're looking at. Can drive you nuts though. I wish you good luck in resolving the problem...

 

I’m at the shop now. They don’t have a road force balancer but they assure me they can find the issue. We’ll see I suppose. At this point I welcome a 4th opinion.

 

You were given some great advice re road force balancing and you go to a shop that can not do it.

 

Thanks very much for the smart *** reply. that helped a lot. I didn’t ignore anyone’s advice. I’m not an imbecile. I posted here for advice. Why would I do that if I was just going to ignore it?

I didn't know they didn’t have one until I got there. I figured I was already there, what was the harm in giving them a shot at it.

They did say that all the wheels were out of balance a couple by more than 2oz. They rebalanced them and it is different now but not better. I feel it more in the peddles and steering wheel not so much the seat anymore. I did ask them to check specifically for a bent rim and they said they didn’t see one. I’m pretty sure they are wrong about that because DT showed me on the balancer and I could see it hopping a little. The Lexus dealer also confirmed a slightly bent wheel.

I think at this point, I'm going to rotate them one side at a time and see if the problem moves. That way I may be able to narrow it down to at least one side.

ultimately though I’ll end up at yet another tire shop.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good shop in southeastern Atlanta area?

 

I would replace or repair the bent wheel, road force balance ALL FOUR wheels again and then see how the ride is. I feel your pain as I was also frustrated until the dealer resolve my shimmy.