2021 ES 300H MPG Issues
02-02-22, 11:43 AM
#16
Driver School Candidate
That's funny because I can't stand the constant jerking shifting up and down and when coming to a stop from a conventional transmission. Not to mention the endless engine noise up, down, up, down, up, down. BAH. If it is automatic and has more than about 4 gears (any car any trans), it's garbage in my experience. The hybrid is so much smoother than a transmission it's not even comparable! Not to mention QUIETER! The gas engine shuts off when decelerating, shuts off at red lights, drive thrus, when backing out of the garage, parking spots, you put it in Park it's just silent.
My LS500 has 10 speeds and I hate it. It takes too much time to get ready to go after coming to a stop. I will not miss the trans when I get my new ES300h. I had a 2011 F150 with way too many gears too, I forget 6 speed, 8 speed? It sucked bad too.
I welcome the day that Lexus is hybrid-only and/or PHEV-only on the whole lineup. Toyota is going that way a little bit with the Sienna, Venza, and Sequoia.
My LS500 has 10 speeds and I hate it. It takes too much time to get ready to go after coming to a stop. I will not miss the trans when I get my new ES300h. I had a 2011 F150 with way too many gears too, I forget 6 speed, 8 speed? It sucked bad too.
I welcome the day that Lexus is hybrid-only and/or PHEV-only on the whole lineup. Toyota is going that way a little bit with the Sienna, Venza, and Sequoia.
I also love the passing power of the V6 in the 350 when I need it.
Both the 300h and 350 are great cars in their respective ways.
02-02-22, 02:13 PM
#17
Lead Lap
Even though the ES350 does have more power than does the ES300h, the real world difference isn't nearly as large as would seem to be the case from just looking at the horsepower difference. While the ES300h has about 240 horsepower, the power that is supplied by the electric motors is instant power. With the ES350, the full power of the engine doesn't take effect until the ICE spins up. The result is that the difference in power between the ES350 and ES300h is a lot smaller than the 60 hp or so difference in their specs.
Last edited by lesz; 02-02-22 at 02:35 PM.
02-02-22, 02:43 PM
#18
Instructor
My wife has a RAV4 Prime for a year in just a few days, I drive it regularly. The gas engine coming on and off is almost impossible to detect, unless you're revving it up hard (noise). I usually put up the fuel economy screen to see if it's on or not.
OK well technically when the car is in full EV mode it has less overall power but I'm talking about normal hybrid mode.
OK well technically when the car is in full EV mode it has less overall power but I'm talking about normal hybrid mode.
02-02-22, 03:31 PM
#19
Driver School Candidate
My wife has a RAV4 Prime for a year in just a few days, I drive it regularly. The gas engine coming on and off is almost impossible to detect, unless you're revving it up hard (noise). I usually put up the fuel economy screen to see if it's on or not.
OK well technically when the car is in full EV mode it has less overall power but I'm talking about normal hybrid mode.
OK well technically when the car is in full EV mode it has less overall power but I'm talking about normal hybrid mode.
02-02-22, 04:22 PM
#20
Not only have I driven multiple Lexus/Toyota hybrid vehicles, but the RAV4 hybrid that I've been driving for almost a year and a half has what is essentially the same engine and eCTV as does the ES300h, and I can say with certainty that, when the ICE shuts off or turns on, the only way that I would be aware of that happening is if I'm looking at the energy/power gauges on the instrument cluster.
Even though the ES350 does have more power than does the ES300h, the real world difference isn't nearly as large as would seem to be the case from just looking at the horsepower difference. While the ES300h has about 240 horsepower, the power that is supplied by the electric motors is instant power. With the ES350, the full power of the engine doesn't take effect until the ICE spins up. The result is that the difference in power between the ES350 and ES300h is a lot smaller than the 60 hp or so difference in their specs.
Even though the ES350 does have more power than does the ES300h, the real world difference isn't nearly as large as would seem to be the case from just looking at the horsepower difference. While the ES300h has about 240 horsepower, the power that is supplied by the electric motors is instant power. With the ES350, the full power of the engine doesn't take effect until the ICE spins up. The result is that the difference in power between the ES350 and ES300h is a lot smaller than the 60 hp or so difference in their specs.
The following users liked this post:
landonm86 (02-03-22)
02-02-22, 04:24 PM
#21
Instructor
Coming from other vehicles that use the start/stop technology the ES300h is step forward. When coasting to a full stop at red light there are times I can feel when the car switches from ICE to EV mode but not always. I think it is more noticeable when I am resting my foot very lightly on the brake pedal. However when the car is in motion it is hard to tell when it switches back to ICE unless I drive it hard due to the noise of the engine. I like to go easy as I am trying to keep my drive pulse score high heh.
Last edited by ionian; 02-02-22 at 04:27 PM. Reason: ...
02-02-22, 05:29 PM
#22
Lead Lap
Most sites/specs I've seen reference it at 215 HP, was that incorrect or an alternate calculation at brings it to 240? I got the 350 after test driving both as I liked the responsiveness better, but thinking there was a near 100hp dif between the two was definetely a factor
https://www.lexus.com/models/ES-hybrid?link[model_overlay_infolayer][SHOW_PAGE]=true&link[model_infolayer][setActiveTab]=1
I think that I got it confused with the 2nd generation NX hybrid, which does have 240 hp.
In any case, with the ESh, the instant torque makes the difference between the power of the ES350 and that of the ES300h seem like a lot less than what the horsepower specs would make you think.
The following users liked this post:
landonm86 (02-03-22)
02-02-22, 05:52 PM
#23
Instructor
ES350 is great if you drive it normally but if you are hammering on it the torque steer is pretty bad as Savagegeese talked about it here:
I agree with Savage geese that ES300h is a better fit for the mission of the ES.
I agree with Savage geese that ES300h is a better fit for the mission of the ES.
The following users liked this post:
ESh (02-03-22)
02-02-22, 05:55 PM
#24
You are correct. It is 215 hp.
https://www.lexus.com/models/ES-hybrid?link[model_overlay_infolayer][SHOW_PAGE]=true&link[model_infolayer][setActiveTab]=1
I think that I got it confused with the 2nd generation NX hybrid, which does have 240 hp.
In any case, with the ESh, the instant torque makes the difference between the power of the ES350 and that of the ES300h seem like a lot less than what the horsepower specs would make you think.
https://www.lexus.com/models/ES-hybrid?link[model_overlay_infolayer][SHOW_PAGE]=true&link[model_infolayer][setActiveTab]=1
I think that I got it confused with the 2nd generation NX hybrid, which does have 240 hp.
In any case, with the ESh, the instant torque makes the difference between the power of the ES350 and that of the ES300h seem like a lot less than what the horsepower specs would make you think.
Hoping the next iteration does use the NX version as I heard that is REALLY good
02-03-22, 08:43 AM
#25
Pole Position
Hybrid technology has come a long way. I've driven multiple recent model year Lexus and Toyota hybrids, and one of the things that has consistently impressed me is how seamless the transition is when the cars are switching from electric power to ICE power or from ICE power to electric power. Unless I was looking at the power gauges in the car, I wouldn't even be aware of the switch from one power source to the other.
I have no idea about what you think you experienced with what you described as "the jerk", but that would be far from typical for a recent model year Lexus or Toyota hybrid. Any switch from one power source to the other is far less noticeable compared to some of the transmission shifts with the 8 speed transmission on the ICE versions of the same cars.
I have no idea about what you think you experienced with what you described as "the jerk", but that would be far from typical for a recent model year Lexus or Toyota hybrid. Any switch from one power source to the other is far less noticeable compared to some of the transmission shifts with the 8 speed transmission on the ICE versions of the same cars.
02-03-22, 02:20 PM
#26
I drove the ESh for the first time a couple of weeks ago as a loaner. I was very impressed with the technology. I watched the hybrid management screen a lot. I never felt anything when it switched over. I did notice that it doesn't stop as smoothly as the ICE version. Sort of a little jerk at the very end.
I much prefer the power of the 350. Saving gas money is not a big issue for me. But the technology is pretty amazing.
I much prefer the power of the 350. Saving gas money is not a big issue for me. But the technology is pretty amazing.
02-03-22, 03:29 PM
#27
I drive hybrids for the past 16 years. The Lexus 300h engine starts and stops without noticing. There is definitely no jerk in normal operation. If there is an issue like broken or tired engine mounts then maybe you can notice a jerk. Just repair it.
The hybrid transmission is light years ahead from the traditional transmissions 3, 4 or even 10 speeds. The acceleration is smooth all the way to top speed. Exotic car owners like Rolls Royce or Maybach would be jealous after driving the ES300h!
Lastly, the brake feeling is still bad. No real feedback to the driver, the opposite of smooth and progressive. Maybe the new model braking is improved. Mine is a 2013 design.
The hybrid transmission is light years ahead from the traditional transmissions 3, 4 or even 10 speeds. The acceleration is smooth all the way to top speed. Exotic car owners like Rolls Royce or Maybach would be jealous after driving the ES300h!
Lastly, the brake feeling is still bad. No real feedback to the driver, the opposite of smooth and progressive. Maybe the new model braking is improved. Mine is a 2013 design.
02-03-22, 03:45 PM
#28
for the ES300h, you kind of get used to, and then dont notice, the "jerk" or whatever you want to call it when ICE engine goes in and out. I don't notice it any more
Also, it is a bit weird going from automatic Trans to the CVT, but you also get used to that and now I LOVE the CVT feel!! just smooth continuous acceleration! now, when I switch to a auto trans car, I feel THAT is odd, and feel the auto trans "jerks" from gear to gear!!
Also, you get used to the brake, which I dont think is bad. It is softer/smoother to me than the Tesla Model S brake which is way too stiff for me.
Also, it is a bit weird going from automatic Trans to the CVT, but you also get used to that and now I LOVE the CVT feel!! just smooth continuous acceleration! now, when I switch to a auto trans car, I feel THAT is odd, and feel the auto trans "jerks" from gear to gear!!
Also, you get used to the brake, which I dont think is bad. It is softer/smoother to me than the Tesla Model S brake which is way too stiff for me.
The following users liked this post:
LS500Fan (02-03-22)
02-03-22, 03:49 PM
#29
also, the 300h is not a slug. Its no match for a performance car or a tesla, but, since most people around have big SUVs, I find that if I want to take someone off the line from a standstill , I can usually do that , at least against the average vehicle. The accelaration from the hybrid powertrain is not bad.
02-03-22, 04:50 PM
#30
Lead Lap
I am using the State Farm "Drive Safe and Save" program, which gives you an insurance premium discount for safe driving. Several times, I've gotten dinged for "harsh braking" when I don't think I was braking harshly at all. I suspect that the "Drive Safe and Save" device is detecting that bit of lack of smoothness that happens when the actual brakes do kick in to finish bringing the car to a complete stop.