LexFinally

I personally devoted a field trip to the dealership in December just to inspect for this specific issue. I believe those front and read headroom statistics, and I've read that the Lexus "up and over" style of moonroof retraction is designed specifically to minimize headroom sacrifice. BUT when you sit in the cars and compare them by the eye, the pano-roof version has a discernible dip in the roof just forward of the area hollowed out to preserve rear headroom, and it creates a subjective impression of reduced spaciousness compared to the standard-sunroof car.

E46CT

Yep I had an M3 convertible that leaked at the corners. All seals were fresh and maintained... just part of the compromise. humans want pleasure and fun stuff. All my sunroof cars though never had any leaks. the seal around the glass is actually not designed for and not capable of sealing out water. it just diverts the vast majority of it away. water is designed to seep through slowly in a controlled fashion and run down the drains. that's why you hear river-like sounds when you drive a sunroof car through the rain. a constant stream of water flowing out of the drains. that's why keep the drains clear

mikemu30

Yep - one of the leakers I had was a brand new car that had a screw somehow lodged in one of the drains from the factory. Took the dealer four visits to figure that one out. Many years ago.

E46CT

maybe a prank by one of the factory workers.. last day on the job or something. or just a monday.

LexFinally

Your comment reminded me of former Oklahoma U. football star Brian "the Boz" Bosworth. He worked a summer at a GM plant that built Chevy sedans, and he bragged to a reporter while at Oklahoma that he'd put loose bolts in inaccessible places inside the fenders of cars on the line so that their owners would be driven crazy by irreparable rattles. After that story went public, there were intense back-and-forth negotiations between the university and GM, concluding with a terse public statement that the incident that Bosworth had described in loving detail did not ever happen.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...739-story.html

DavidZ

Don’t attribute malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

BandOkie

Rubber seal or weather strip or grommet or whatever around the panoramic glass roof. I realize this is an old thread but wondering if anyone ever found a way to get Lexus to replace the rubber seal or alternately found a way to replace it at a reasonable cost? It is time to sell my 2008 ES350 Ultra Luxury, and that is about the only thing I can complain about the UL. Headroom is a bit reduced, but the glass has always been solid and no other issues with it.

BandOkie

The seal becomes very unsightly and bulges out when it experiences enough cold, or cold to hot variations. The estimate - if anyone will replace it - is thousands of dollars.

Mooseisloose

So I ordered a 2024 UL without the pano roof and Lexus accepted the order. Supposed to be built on Mar 01. It will be interesting to see what actually comes out of the factory. I really have no need of a window on top of the car, either in standard sunroof form or pano roof.

Wilson2000

I'm helping my brother-in-law find a used 2019-2022 ES 350. I'm noticing the best deals are on models with pano roofs. I'm also noticing examples with pano roofs are on the used car market much longer. This leads me to believe the issues with pano roofs are real and the word is out, within the used car market at least.

Too, my brother-in-law is tall, so the reduced headroom is a problem. Considering all the disadvantages to pano roofs, I'll be surprised if Lexus continues to offer them in the next gen. If they do, however, it won't be the first time Lexus surprised me!

Mike728

If there were issues with the ES's pano roofs, you would be seeing them posted on here.

Has your BIL sat in an ES with a pano roof and had issues with head room? How tall is he?

Wilson2000

I AM seeing pano roof issues posted on CL. Search the site for "pano roof issues" and you will see many posts. My BIL has an acquaintance who traded in his 6-month-old ES with pano roof because the dealer couldn't stop the leaking.

My BIL is 6-4, and has only sat in the non-pano. While he has clearance, it's limited.

UltraLux22

Hmm, I could have sworn.... Oh, wait. There, I fixed that for you!

You weren't wrong, so I fixed that for who might have let those posts slip under their radar.

Funny how those "nonexistent" issues/posts have suddenly materialized out of thin air, isn't it? Almost like they were here the whole time, blatantly obvious for all to see. But don't worry, I'm sure it was just an oversight. Here are a few examples of the discussions that were somehow missed.

I've made some updates to this post to provide more clarity.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...l#post11229630

On my 2019 Lexus, I experienced seal issues that led to increased road noise at around 1,000 miles. Lexus eventually replaced the glass roof after three visits and ten days in the service department, thankfully resolving the issue. But not before bringing in a specialist to diagnose the issue and find a remedy. In my experience, panoramic glass roofs introduce more cabin noise, and with my preferred driving position, the reduced headroom was noticeable, though not a dealbreaker. Additionally, colder climates with ice and snow exacerbated the noise issue.

I was fortunate to get my 2022 UL special order exactly as I'd hoped, with the standard moonroof. @LexFinally ordered essentially the same car but unfortunately ended up with the panoramic glass roof, even though that wasn't his preference. He was denied.

Here's a rundown of the potential drawbacks of a panoramic glass roof:

• Increased heat: The larger glass surface can turn your car into a bit of an oven on sunny days.
• Reduced headroom: Models with panoramic roofs sacrifice a bit of headspace for that open-air feel.
• Added weight: The glass panel and its mechanisms add extra weight to the roof, potentially affecting handling and fuel efficiency. There is a reason why the ES 300h, 250, and F-Sport Handling grades/trims are sans panoramic glass roofs.
• Noise and complexity: The moving parts and larger surface area can create more noise in the cabin, especially in bad weather. Rain noise, in particular, can be quite noticeable.
• Condensation: In colder weather, condensation can form on the glass, sometimes leading to drips or obstructing visibility. In freezing weather, moisture between the glass and seals can potentially be a nuisance.
• Potential structural impact: While modern panoramic roof designs are generally safe, some argue that the large glass panel could theoretically affect the vehicle's structural integrity in extreme scenarios, such as rollovers. Additionally, there's a slightly greater potential for glass breakage compared to a traditional metal roof.

It's not all bad news though. Panoramic roofs undeniably enhance the car's aesthetic appeal, which is likely why dealerships often equip their ES models with them – it's a good way to boost the price tag, and most buyers do seem to like them. They certainly create a more open and airy feel in the cabin, flooding it with natural light. But for me, those benefits just weren't enough to compensate for the drawbacks. So, when it came to my second ES, I went with the trusty old moonroof that almost never got opened. To each their own!

UltraLux22

Duplicate post

LexFinally

Lexus brags that this pano roof is specifically designed not to rob headroom. Nonetheless, I tried to order my car without it, only to be rebuffed by the factory during the height of the shortages. Before accepting the car with pano (to the dealer's credit, they waived its price), I went to the dealership and test-sat the ES front and back on pano and non-pano versions. (I'm 6'2" with a long torso.) I concluded that the roof was lower between the front and rear headroom areas, but there was nearly no difference where your head goes.