radiologym

Hello,
I have 2007 ES 350 which has been great. I am looking for a replacement and would like to see if 350 or 300h would work best for me. I am looking for a comfortable ride without distractions.

I have not driven 300h and wonder if it will be better because CVT should be smoother when shifting plus looks like Lexus put extra soundproofing in 300, probably to compensate for higher pitch of 4 cylinder engine. One review mentioned that you can hear your rear passengers and car audio better due to this. We do drive cross country often so better fuel economy would help.

On the other hand my V6 drowns outside noise in more pleasant lower pitch hum and does not get obnoxiously loud when accelerating or going up the hill as I heard in cheaper rentals cars.

I understand that driving both back to back should help but I probably will need more than short drive at the dealership to really appreciate the difference.

toyotaman7

I have a 300h and love it. Can not hear the engine unless i floor it. I think there Must be a sound cancelling system for when the engine kicks in. It's fire sure quiter than three engine on my 16 RX.

I drive alot and was looking for a Safe, comfortable car that doesn't cost much to operate. So far this car has been meeting ALL those requirements. Quite, comfortable and reality good on gas.

radiologym

I think that 300h still come to US market assembled in Japan while 350 usually not?

toyotaman7

My 2020 is made in USA

radiologym

Thanks!
I may go for used UL 2019 300h as long as I can find one with baseball leather or espresso wood interior. I understand that 2019 was year of big update. What would be the changes in more recent models that 2019 does not have?

toyotaman7

Android Auto was added 2020 + for sure along with other updates to improve minor things from 2019

radiologym

Is real leather part of luxury package?

TechNut

I also have a 2019 ES 300h, replacing my 2015 300h. I obviously enjoy this model. I also read about the additional sound deadening in the hybrids and the ultra luxury models at the time this new generation was released. The reasoning as explained was simply to make the ultra luxury models feel more luxurious, and to mask the greater potential noise from the 4 cylinder used by the hybrids.

We have really enjoyed this car. My best tank of gas so far netted 46 mpg. The CVT performs just fine for my needs (those that enjoy spirited or enthusiastic driving often find its smooth behavior somewhat off-putting) and it exhibits none of the shifting jerkiness that some of the 350 owners have complained about. So yes, in my humble opinion, it is quieter and smoother than the 350. The thing is, we can talk this to death, but the only way you are going to sort this out is by driving each for yourself. Given the differences in the transmissions I would urge you to pay particular attention to the shifting and power during your test drive. I have always felt like the car has plenty of power for getting on the freeway, but I haven't driven it on any serious hills, which was one of my complaints with the heavier NX 300h which had a nearly identical powerplant (same 2.5L engine but the newer ES is tuned for more horsepower). So I would make sure you try it on a typical freeway onramp - even better if you can find one that is uphill.

One additional consideration is the ride quality of the suspension. Starting with the 6th generation of ES vehicles, the ride wasn't as softly sprung as your 2007 ES. I have read this was to improve handling and reduce body roll, but it is something you will need to consider during your test drive.

radiologym

Thank you for the explanation. I brought up going up the hills/mountains as an example where I found 4 cylinder noise objectionable in the cheaper american cars which were not well insulated. Where I live it's flat driving and therefore not a problem.

Acceleration while getting on the freeway I will have to test, as well as suspension. I will be going soon for recall work on our 2017 RX350 and will ask them for 300h loaner to get a better feel.

44 mpg is great and may make 300h our go to car when long driving is needed, which we do at least weekly in the family with 3 drivers.

From my research Lexus CVT is quite reliable and should last. In 2021 Lexus added Li-ion battery option in some markets but from my experience with Tesla it's not always better in cold climate.

TechNut

I believe the Li-ion battery started with the 2021 models but I may be mistaken on that. My 2019 has the Nickel Metal Hydride battery that has been used in hybrids for many years. Nickel Cadmium would never make a good battery for a hybrid as it develops a memory after repeated recharging. The main difference between Li-ion and Nickel Metal Hydride that I am aware of is energy storage density. The Lithium battery has greater storage density but I believe they are similar in most other respects. The Li-ion battery is used in almost all electronics applications today and growing in popularity in automotive applications, but it is more expensive and has more challenges with heat dissipation (you have probably heard of Samsung phones and Teslas catching fire...). The problems with Li-ion are rare and can be managed by proper engineering, but there have been some mistakes as companies learn to properly handle these batteries.

radiologym

While Toyota V6 is an amazing engine with proven reliability, are there significant known longevity issues for this CVT and 4 cylinder engine?

toyotaman7

What are the issues with the eCVT on any of Toyotas hybrid? These are not typical CVTs as there are physical gears vs the belt CVT on non hybrid vehicles.

TechNut

I am not aware of any issues. They use the same basic drivetrain in a wide range of Toyota and Lexus hybrids, even the new 2020+ Highlander. The Highlander 2.5L is tuned for higher horsepower so they obviously tweak that engine for different platforms, but as far as I know the same basic transmission is used in all their hybrids and Toyota has a lot of experience in that department. Frankly, I don't think I have heard a single complaint about that transmission from a repair standpoint. I'm not saying there haven't been failures, just none that I have seen discussed here. I might look at the Toyota Nation Forum to research that question since far more vehicles of this same configuration have been produced under the Toyota brand.

E46CT

The A25AFXS powertrain is a massive investment by Toyota and powers the Camry, Avalon, Rav4, Sienna, Highlander hybrids. So it's a corporate powerhouse that has Toyota's reputation riding on it--literally. So I'll bet it's going to be super reliable. Toyota takes no chances with their mainstream powertrains. Zero.

As for the 300h, I love my 2021. Super quiet, super refined, flawless operation. When you floor it, yes it's a hybrid and is not as fast in an absolute sense as the V6, but the hybrid means business when it accelerates. You get plenty of torque from 0 RPM that does not require a traditional winding out of the engine to achieve it. So its real world power is actually quite nice. A big improvement from the first, second, and third gen hybrid powertrains that were weak and rubberbandy. Drive it you'll like it.

And yes both the 300h and 350 have active noise cancellation which is tuned to cancel out noise from both engines upon acceleration. I did the research and this info is contained in Toyota technical docs.

rebel7254

I hated the transmission of the ES 350 so much that I traded it in 3 weeks later for a ES 300h, taking a ~$7k hit in the process, and so far I do not regret it.

As has been mentioned already, the best thing to do is to test drive them both and decide for yourself. Just don't make the mistake I did and assume any jerkiness you may encounter with the transmission in the ES 350 will mellow out as the computers "learn".

If you don't care about exciting sporty style driving, and you don't plan on keeping the car more than 8 years or 100,000 miles, I would say the hybrid is easily the best choice. I only mention 8 yrs/100k miles because that's when the hybrid system goes out of warranty. The hybrid battery is covered for another 2 years or 150,000 miles. Not saying you should definitely avoid the ES 300h if you plan on keepin itg past the hybrid system warranty, but it's just something to pause and consider due to the high cost of repairs or replacement if something goes wrong with the hybrid components.