LexFinally

I agree with this. The naturally aspirated V6 is a goner. By the same token, I dismiss the current ES 250 AWD (with apologies to its owners; I hope you love your cars) as a half-hearted effort. What I consider a serious effort is a turbo four producing 3.5-like power, either connected to mechanical AWD or with hybrid electric motors powering the rear wheels (at all speeds, not weak-sauce low-speed-only like the AWD Prius).

The Crown sounds like it checks all these boxes, with the added plus of a longitudinal engine that provides better weight distribution for inherently better-balanced handling than a transverse engine. The fact it's built on the LS/Mirai chassis is a game changer; that's an inherently superior platform to the Camry/ES underpinnings. I think the comparison above to the GS is an apt and insightful one. Brushing aside the subjective "it won't matter because it's ugly" comment, I think this could ably fill the GS-shaped hole in the Lexus lineup until electrics come along, and I'd have to think very seriously about trading for it given the chance.

ATL350

I really wonder if Lexus would add a new version of the GS while still retaining an updated ES, since sedans are not nearly as popular as they used to be. Additionally, it seems that there would need to be greater differentiation between a GS/ES to justify the cost of two model lines. If they weren't pushing the F-Sport ES so much (it seems like every ES press car is now an F-Sport) perhaps I'd be more of a believer, but it seems like they want to have the ES cover a broader swath of appeal. How successful that is/would be is, of course, open to debate. Bottom line, is there really enough market share to divide to have an ES and GS (and don't forget IS)?

LexFinally

The only way I can see this happening is if, as suggested, the new Crown is a world car and therefore costs Toyota essentially nothing extra to also send it here. But Toyota is a giant organization, so that's not completely impossible. If so, a giant question is: Would it be sold here as a Toyota or a Lexus? I'm guessing the latter.

ATL350

I agree - if they want to make it a serious car to compete in the uber-competitive luxury/near luxury market, making it a Toyota would diminish the Lexus brand, one that still suffers from the "it's just a Camry under the skin" thing. It would also give it the margin to make it more luxurious, quieter, etc., that would justify the price point in Lexus territory.

LexFinally

Thanks for correcting that. Fixed.

LexFinally

Unfortunately, here's another potential scenario: Toyota prostitutes the Crown name by slapping it on a lowered-roof Highlander here. Essentially this car would be to the Highlander what the Venza is to the RAV4: chopped down and marked up.
https://carbuzz.com/news/new-toyota-...ace-the-avalon

AZFamLexus

I’m not sure of what the presence of the Crown does for the ES as it’s already know that Lexus will replace the ES as we know it at the end of the 2023 model year.

LexFinally

I started this thread, but it now sounds like much ado about nothing. The Crown sedan won't come here. Instead, Toyota will prostitute the Crown name by slapping it on a FWD-based spiffed-up AWD Highlander SUV.

glamglam

I heard otherwise that Toyota will also bring the Crown sedan here to the USA. The news has already been verified by Toyota.

LexFinally

I haven't seen that verification. Can you share it with us?

glamglam

There’s a link somewhere in the Toyota Nation forums that talks about the Crown sedan coming to the USA.

LexFinally

https://www.toyotanation.com/threads...ander.1717877/

peteharvey

No Crown sedan coming.
Just a "Grand" Highlander with 3 rows of seats.
A more upmarket trimmed Crown SUV.
Plus a luxury Lexus TX with 3 rows of seats.

ionian

The Crown looks nice in this color combo:

LexFinally

Raiti still looks silly with his usual macho straddle, though.