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Spend winters in Fl. Thus, no need for AWD. The 350 ES just checks all the boxes incredibly perfectly for me. If they foolishly replace it with some newer configuration like turbo 4 AWD, I’ll just buy the last current iteration made and keep it for “the duration.” Human nature is funny. We never leave well enough alone—-we screw it up then label it progress! Ugh!
You know the old expression, “If it ain’t broke, fix it till it is!”
I get that some people put a lot of weight on how fast a car can go/accelerate, nothing wrong with that if that's what you favor. But I find it silly to then determine that such engine power makes a car "far superior" to one with lesser results. The ES was never designed or intended to be a performance vehicle, the current F-Sport trim out notwithstanding. If you want BMW driving dynamics then buy a BMW, but don't criticize others who don't look on 0-60 times as a measure of superiority.
I honestly find the fact that people focus so much on power when buying an ES is a weird phenomenon. Not sure if it's due to the F-Sport trim, the sporty styling, or that crowd has always existed, but to me the ES is a fancy Camry designed for old people who want to have a luxurious reliable car. It would be like comparing a BMW M3 with the Lincoln Towncar.
..the ES is a fancy Camry designed for old people who want to have a luxurious reliable car.
I think that is the classic profile of the typical ES buyers. However the sedan market and this demographic of buyers are literally knocking at heaven's gate so Toyota needs to expand ES buyers base. Chances are the next ES will have a bunch of trims so there is something for everyone. It would be wild if there is hybrid max plugin version that hits 0-60 in like 4 seconds. That would be the real F sport trim with performance to back it up instead of some bs fluff.
I think that is the classic profile of the typical ES buyers. However the sedan market and this demographic of buyers are literally knocking at heaven's gate so Toyota needs to expand ES buyers base. Chances are the next ES will have a bunch of trims so there is something for everyone. It would be wild if there is hybrid max plugin version that hits 0-60 in like 4 seconds. That would be the real F sport trim with performance to back it up instead of some bs fluff.
My point is that it's weird that's something the ES customer base is focused on though. If an ES 450h+ or whatever with a 0-60 time of 4 seconds with the F Sport suspension and all that jazz existed, I guess it would make sense. It reminds me of the 4th Gen Sienna.
It's just so, odd to try a make a vehicle that's known for anything but being sporty, sporty...
I don't know, it could just be the old man in me speaking lol
My sympathies to you. That area was devastated but will again be beautiful when repaired and restored. We’re on Marco Island and were spared from any significant damage. Best of luck. Hope things work out for you in time for Season.
When seeking out cars and considering them for purchase, there are certain levels of expectation, whether realized or not. A certain level of cachet, performance, reliability, and luxury is expected. As a result, these brands have earned automatic distinctions for most of us in the know. When you think of performance, you likely think of BMW or Audi. When you think of luxury, you likely think of Mercedes. When you think of reliability, you think of Lexus or even Toyota. Of course, you don't automatically assume Toyota for luxury, but you do when you think about Lexus. The brands have earned reputations for a reason, and even though they can sometimes falter, they still possess those inherent qualities that their nameplates conjure in your mind.
When I purchased my 2018 Honda Accord Touring, it had every available feature, and some the Lexus didn't even have. Its performance was far more excellent than I expected, and in fact, it was more fun and spirited to drive than my current Ult. Lux. But something was missing. Something I found when I drove the ES for the first time. It conveyed all those expectations I was looking for and put them in a car I felt confident about. Sure there are different cars meant for other customers, but I felt like I was moving in the direction that I wanted to be in. I see the ES moving in a different direction, trying to satisfy customers who drive change and innovation. I believe they will find a way to satisfy their core customers, and while they may lose some if their direction is off, I feel that most of us will remain brand loyal because it's likely they will keep the car in line with their core directives.
My sympathies to you. That area was devastated but will again be beautiful when repaired and restored. We’re on Marco Island and were spared from any significant damage. Best of luck. Hope things work out for you in time for Season.
Thank you kindly. I don't expect tourism to return to the area until 2024 but perhaps we'll get lucky and it will be sooner. Meanwhile my wife is excited about the prospect of redecorating now that she is getting over the initial shock and sadness🤣
When seeking out cars and considering them for purchase, there are certain levels of expectation, whether realized or not. A certain level of cache, performance, reliability, and luxury is expected. As a result, these brands have earned automatic distinctions for most of us in the know. When you think of performance, you likely think of BMW or Audi. When you think of luxury, you likely think of Mercedes. When you think of reliability, you think of Lexus or even Toyota. Of course, you don't automatically assume Toyota for luxury, but you do when you think about Lexus. The brands have earned reputations for a reason, and even though they can sometimes falter, they still possess those inherent qualities that their nameplates conjure in your mind.
When I purchased my 2018 Honda Accord Touring, it had every available feature, and some the Lexus didn't even have. Its performance was far more excellent than I expected, and in fact, it was more fun and spirited to drive than my current Ult. Lux. But something was missing. Something I found when I drove the ES for the first time. It conveyed all those expectations I was looking for and put them in a car I felt confident about. Sure there are different cars meant for other customers, but I felt like I was moving in the direction that I wanted to be in. I see the ES moving in a different direction, trying to satisfy customers who drive change and innovation. I believe they will find a way to satisfy their core customers, and while they may lose some if their direction is off, I feel that most of us will remain brand loyal because it's likely they will keep the car in line with their core directives.
As long as Lexus doesn't move their interior design language to something like Mercedes:
Keeps up with their impeccable build quality and reliability, and still remember people buy Lexus cause they're smooth and quiet, I'll continue to be a loyal customer. If they wanna throw a supercharged V12 with all the crazy sporty nonsense or whatever into it, that's fine by me. As long as it doesn't affect reliability or the ride quality.
When seeking out cars and considering them for purchase, there are certain levels of expectation, whether realized or not. A certain level of cache, performance, reliability, and luxury is expected. As a result, these brands have earned automatic distinctions for most of us in the know. When you think of performance, you likely think of BMW or Audi. When you think of luxury, you likely think of Mercedes. When you think of reliability, you think of Lexus or even Toyota. Of course, you don't automatically assume Toyota for luxury, but you do when you think about Lexus. The brands have earned reputations for a reason, and even though they can sometimes falter, they still possess those inherent qualities that their nameplates conjure in your mind.
When I purchased my 2018 Honda Accord Touring, it had every available feature, and some the Lexus didn't even have. Its performance was far more excellent than I expected, and in fact, it was more fun and spirited to drive than my current Ult. Lux. But something was missing. Something I found when I drove the ES for the first time. It conveyed all those expectations I was looking for and put them in a car I felt confident about. Sure there are different cars meant for other customers, but I felt like I was moving in the direction that I wanted to be in. I see the ES moving in a different direction, trying to satisfy customers who drive change and innovation. I believe they will find a way to satisfy their core customers, and while they may lose some if their direction is off, I feel that most of us will remain brand loyal because it's likely they will keep the car in line with their core directives.
We’ll said. Time for you to give up the day job and write professionally. Incidentally, I agree with everything you’ve said—-and I rarely do that!
Unfortunately, the new Crown only achieves an "Acceptable" structure rating in the new side impact test-- about the exact same as the lower-to-the-ground ES. Acceptable is.. well acceptable. But of course Good would be nice. I thought by 2024, TNGA ("Mark 2) i would've liked to see a "Good" structure. I was rooting for the Crown as you see in my earlier posts! I want(ed) the new ES to take after the Crown. but not now. This Crown just keeps status quo.
Front driver test of Crown did "good" overall, but saw a 6cm push back of the lower hinge pillar. The passenger side of this test saw elevated foot/leg injury.
in 2024, especially for a car of this size, we should really be seeing all "Good" marks across the board. it almost seems like Toyota recycled the existing TNGA platform and didn't do much to it safety wise. Not to say it's bad..it's still pretty good. just not as good as it should be for 2024 & a brand new flagship model of this size and this high. Generally being higher yields better results.
I hope the next 8ES is on a totally stout/new/modern/beefed up structure/platform. I thought the Crown would be it, from my earlier posts. So we have to hope the next Camry/ES is the new one.
Photo: not the end of the world, still overall good, but better to have no tear-away, push back of the hinge pillar.
Body side outer/hinge pillar pushback 6cm:
ES is better by comparison
Also note the stamped black metal brace on the crown. The ES achieves similar performance without the add-on brace. my sense is that this brace was needed for mitigation because they are reusing the same TNGA chassis but with more weight. This to me generally means it's not purpose built/optimized but instead adapted.
As long as Lexus doesn't move their interior design language to something like Mercedes:
Keeps up with their impeccable build quality and reliability, and still remember people buy Lexus cause they're smooth and quiet, I'll continue to be a loyal customer. If they wanna throw a supercharged V12 with all the crazy sporty nonsense or whatever into it, that's fine by me. As long as it doesn't affect reliability or the ride quality.
I think that is the classic profile of the typical ES buyers. However the sedan market and this demographic of buyers are literally knocking at heaven's gate so Toyota needs to expand ES buyers base. Chances are the next ES will have a bunch of trims so there is something for everyone. It would be wild if there is hybrid max plugin version that hits 0-60 in like 4 seconds. That would be the real F sport trim with performance to back it up instead of some bs fluff.
RE: the "bunch of trims that will satisfy everybody", I have my doubts, based on the RX redesign and now the new TX. I'm speaking particularly of Lexus interiors. They have moved to a much more somber look, in my opinion, joining the new trend of more fabric on doors and maybe even the dash. On the doors that seems to replace prior wood accents. What "wood" they offer is that dreadful black IKEA looking stuff, that, again, pairs in dark interiors to be somber of not gloomy. (You can get a more attractive bamboo option on the RX but they rarely show it and you can only get it with the macadamia or palomino upholstery, so no choice to pair it with a darker interior to lighten it up and make a nice contrast.) The back seat area? Even less style.
I am also concerned with their desire to be more tech-laden just for tech sake, as with the loss of physical switches for AC and such basic functions, and the one that I find most troubling, the steering wheel controls to project selection in the heads-up display. (I love many of the new tech features, so that's not it, is the user interface I'm referring to.) A neat idea on paper perhaps, but it is one of those choices that are not practical for many while you're driving and trying to focus on that while making your selection. Lots of complaints about it in auto reviews.Yet at the same time, they dropped the split screen on the ever large central display, a feature many people really like. Frankly the RX is no longer luxurious looking to me, at least in most configurations. The TX (the new GX possibly as well) even less so, truly looking like a nicer Toyota, but not a Lexus, and certainly not different enough to justify the higher price.
Yea, I'm an older guy now, so perhaps my tastes are old too, but a lot of car makers are adapting a trend seen elsewhere in marketing, having "more" choices but choices which actually are less differentiated or worthwhile. It reminds me about the famous old joke about the Model T, that you could have it in any color you wanted - as long as it was black.
All that's a bit over the top (and unnecessarily expensive) for my tastes.
I'm perfectly pleased and comfortable with the ES' current interior level I call, "rich but not gaudy."
11-01-22, 09:21 AM
